[Forensic Rock]

This has been a fascinating post and I am grateful to all who have shared information.

I am a collision reconstructionist and I am wondering if you could help me out with a couple of questions regarding this tool?

One, will it talk to the airbag system? Under "All other models" --> "Each System Check" --> "Airbag System" --> May have to hit 'OK' --> "Event Record Data". Do you make it here without errors? What do you see? If your car hasn't been in any collisions, you shouldn't see anything there. I am curious if this tool can be used to retrieve black box data (i.e. the Event Data Recorder).

Two, for those of you with Eyesight systems, does this log real-time Eyesight parameters like the distance from the target?

And lastly, what software are you using to log massive amounts of real-time data to CSV?

Three questions...sorry!

Awesome stuff here.

Thanks already,

Shawn

 

[llamafilm]

My tool is in storage but I will check the Airbag when I have time. I think that section was working if my memory is correct.
I don't have Eyesight, but I don't think this software provides any way to retrieve previously recorded data. Do you know if the car does in fact record data continuously?
This tool does have the ability to log sensor data while the laptop is connected to the car. It records to a proprietary format, and it lets you export CSV afterward, for analysis in other tools.
If you buy the "real" hardware from Denso or Hitachi, then it can record to a CF card by leaving just the tool connected to the car. Then you can download the data later on the computer. But this VxDiag does not have that feature.

 

[Forensic Rock]

Thanks for the quick reply.

The Eyesight system doesn't store anything (at least that I am aware of). Rather, you can use SSM3/4 to monitor what Eyesight is seeing in front of the vehicle. So, I plan on data logging the Eyesight system and syncing it with video. Does the data this system logs have a time stamp?

And, I'm new to all of this, so excuse the naive question, but I am assuming parameters like speed, brake status, ABS activity, Eyesight parameters (if it can), etc. can be monitored simultaneously and then exported using this tool? I.e. that's the point of this, to monitor multiple channels at once and get CSV data.

Thanks again.

 

[AstroKats]

I'm curious if this data would be able to determine if Eyesight is impacted by mods, tints, lifts, etc. It's a subject that comes up over and over again here. Anyone have any sample files? ?

 

[Forensic Rock]

I'm curious if this data would be able to determine if Eyesight is impacted by mods, tints, lifts, etc. It's a subject that comes up over and over again here. Anyone have any sample files? ?

I am looking for a more cost-effective option than the Denso ST-i tool which is why this tool is so interesting to me, but, based on my experience with the Denso tool, you can absolutely see how far away Eyesight thinks the vehicle is in front of you in real-time.

If this tool can do the same thing (and I think it can based on what I have read here since it mirrors the Denso's functionality) then that would be awesome. But I am hopefully looking for someone to confirm before I pull the trigger.

As far as testing tints and mods, that would be awesome to test out and pretty simple to do. I approach this from an accident reconstruction perspective so those mods are particularly relevant to what I do.

 

[llamafilm]

There is a timestamp column but I don't understand the units. Here's an example I recorded with the Transmission system. This is about 5300 entries from a span of about 30 minutes (rough estimate). So it's logging a few times per second.

MEGA

MEGA provides free cloud storage with convenient and powerful always-on privacy. Claim your free 20GB now

mega.nz

You have to choose a particular system to record; you can't record ALL sensors at the same time, as there isn't enough bandwidth. There is a lot of overlap — meaning common sensors such as speed are included in multiple systems. So hopefully you can find a collection that suits your needs. You can certainly monitor data in real-time while recording.

I'm curious how you would use this, since the data isn't recorded for the initial crash. Would you be actually crashing new cars to reproduce a situation? If you're located near LA, I would be happy to meet up to show you how it works. Send me a PM.

AstroKats, that's a good question. I suppose you could drive the same route before and after the mod and see if anything is different, but that might not be enough information to determine if there is a problem. For example, the "sun load" sensor on the dashboard is clearly affected by my windshield tint. But how to tell what impact that might have on EyeSight, I don't know.

 

[AstroKats]

Interesting...

The OP usually asks a question like, "I want to mod/install XYZ, will it affect Eyesight?" and someone will reply that they did it and didn't notice any difference but I can't help thinking that a tint, or something mounted on the dash or whatever would have some effect, even if active cruise control still works. Just academic curiosity... ?

 

[Forensic Rock]

Thanks for the upload - very useful. That is an interesting timestamp for sure. Like you said, it seems to be about 3 Hz for about 30 minutes of driving which is good. The samples are inconsistent and I'd have to figure out how to sync to video. If anyone has any Denso ST-i data they have data logged, I'd be very curious to review that to see if they give time stamps.

Thanks for all of your help.

 

[Forensic Rock]

There is a timestamp column but I don't understand the units. Here's an example I recorded with the Transmission system. This is about 5300 entries from a span of about 30 minutes (rough estimate). So it's logging a few times per second.

MEGA

MEGA provides free cloud storage with convenient and powerful always-on privacy. Claim your free 20GB now

mega.nz

You have to choose a particular system to record; you can't record ALL sensors at the same time, as there isn't enough bandwidth. There is a lot of overlap — meaning common sensors such as speed are included in multiple systems. So hopefully you can find a collection that suits your needs. You can certainly monitor data in real-time while recording.

I'm curious how you would use this, since the data isn't recorded for the initial crash. Would you be actually crashing new cars to reproduce a situation? If you're located near LA, I would be happy to meet up to show you how it works. Send me a PM.

AstroKats, that's a good question. I suppose you could drive the same route before and after the mod and see if anything is different, but that might not be enough information to determine if there is a problem. For example, the "sun load" sensor on the dashboard is clearly affected by my windshield tint. But how to tell what impact that might have on EyeSight, I don't know.

Also, I am in PA, unfortunately. To answer your question, I wouldn't be actually crashing the vehicle into another vehicle. I have a vinyl mock-up of a vehicle that I plan on running into. I want to see when Eyesight detects the vehicle to understand how the system works.

 

[AstroKats]

Also, I am in PA, unfortunately. To answer your question, I wouldn't be actually crashing the vehicle into another vehicle. I have a vinyl mock-up of a vehicle that I plan on running into. I want to see when Eyesight detects the vehicle to understand how the system works.

Very cool! Wish I could help with this but I'm in Santa Monica, CA.

I'm also curious what happens when the Active Cruise Control shuts off in heavy traffic and the car starts to creep. Would it actually hit the car in front in stationary traffic?

Let me know if I can help with any data analysis...

 

[Forensic Rock]

Very cool! Wish I could help with this but I'm in Santa Monica, CA.

I'm also curious what happens when the Active Cruise Control shuts off in heavy traffic and the car starts to creep. Would it actually hit the car in front in stationary traffic?

Let me know if I can help with any data analysis...

Very cool of you to offer - I may take you up on that. I think I am going to have a MOUNTAIN of vehicle data/VBOX/GoPro/drone and offboard cameras to organize.

If you ever see any logged Denso CSV data I'd love to see it. I am looking to come up with an alternative to purchasing the Denso tool for 5-6k!

This system seems very promising.

 

[DallasJW]

Yes this does read airbag codes (I’ve tested with success when I forgot to reconnect driver knee airbag, pretty sure it reset after reconnect and car was restarted but I could be mistaken) seems to support EDR. When I select the EDR option in the past it gives me a legal disclaimer and then I’ve just backed out.

I’ll connect, take screen shots and move past the legal disclaimer if you can tell me how often this data typically gets pulled without a court order and if a driver refused to provide, how likely it would be for you to get a court order. Boy would I be pissed if my car testifies against me saying that I was going 75 in a 60.

If you work in crash reconstruction, you’d probably want to be careful with this tool in a legal sense. If you look at the screenshots, the software is clearly identical to the real deal, which would indicate to many about the way the software was obtained.

 

[Forensic Rock]

Yes this does read airbag codes (I’ve tested with success when I forgot to reconnect driver knee airbag, pretty sure it reset after reconnect and car was restarted but I could be mistaken) seems to support EDR. When I select the EDR option in the past it gives me a legal disclaimer and then I’ve just backed out.

I’ll connect, take screen shots and move past the legal disclaimer if you can tell me how often this data typically gets pulled without a court order and if a driver refused to provide, how likely it would be for you to get a court order. Boy would I be pissed if my car testifies against me saying that I was going 75 in a 60.

If you work in crash reconstruction, you’d probably want to be careful with this tool in a legal sense. If you look at the screenshots, the software is clearly identical to the real deal, which would indicate to many about the way the software was obtained.

Good question. The way most states work is that with a warrant, the decision to pull your vehicle's EDR (i.e. Black Box) data is out of your hands. Think vehicular homicides, DUI cases, etc. If there is no probable cause for a warrant, the owner of the data is ALWAYS the owner of the vehicle. The owner must provide permission for another party to access EDR data.

This is where things get interesting. If you are involved in an accident and your vehicle is NOT totaled, then the decision about whether or not someone accesses your EDR is in your hands. You are holding onto the vehicle, plan on repairing it, and therefore you own the data. However, if your vehicle is totaled, and you want to get paid from your insurance company for your totaled vehicle, guess who now owns the vehicle? And they now own the EDR data as well. So it is an interesting situation for sure.

If you could send me screengrabs that would be awesome. This would be for research purposes only and wouldn't be used in a legal environment. Good thinking though.

 

[DallasJW]

Interesting! Certainly complicated, and I was wondering about the case of what happens if the car is totaled. Ok, I connected and took some screenshots. As you predicted, there was just a notification saying that there wasn't any EDR data to pull.

Page 1

After agreement page:

Displayed for all data requests:

Diagnostic Code(s) Display

I was able to successfully clear this.
Stored Data from Code:

Then I think there was some ?'s regarding multiple module data gathering. It worked for some modules but not all, interestingly ECU didn't work (this could be because mine has been modified, unlikely its the problem but possibly.)

Example when connected to HVAC + Airbag shown below. Also shown is all that is shown under "Current Data Display & Save" for the airbag module.. So I assume you get more data with an EDR report as this data display doesn't even show vehicle speed. I wasn't able to find a way to select only certain data points from each module to allow for faster sampling. Data can be recorded and saved, then reviewed just as it appears below (and as it appeared when gathering the data real-time).

To answer your PM: I did have this running on Win 10. However, due to incompatibility with VX Diag for VW, and a recommendation for Honda HDS, I replaced with Win 7 pro. SSM works the same on both OS'. Note that all that is available for use with VX Diag is SSM III, NOT SSM IV.

I'd imagine you've seen this, but some interesting info here: https://iptm.unf.edu/uploadedFiles/summit/handouts/Ruth R_EDR Update 2019.pdf .

Dallas

 

[Forensic Rock]

Interesting! Certainly complicated, and I was wondering about the case of what happens if the car is totaled. Ok, I connected and took some screenshots. As you predicted, there was just a notification saying that there wasn't any EDR data to pull.
View attachment 298659

Page 1 View attachment 298656
After agreement page:
View attachment 298657
Displayed for all data requests:
View attachment 298658
Diagnostic Code(s) Display
View attachment 298660
I was able to successfully clear this.
Stored Data from Code:
View attachment 298661
Then I think there was some ?'s regarding multiple module data gathering. It worked for some modules but not all, interestingly ECU didn't work (this could be because mine has been modified, unlikely its the problem but possibly.)
View attachment 298663
Example when connected to HVAC + Airbag shown below. Also shown is all that is shown under "Current Data Display & Save" for the airbag module.. So I assume you get more data with an EDR report as this data display doesn't even show vehicle speed. I wasn't able to find a way to select only certain data points from each module to allow for faster sampling. Data can be recorded and saved, then reviewed just as it appears below (and as it appeared when gathering the data real-time).
View attachment 298662

To answer your PM: I did have this running on Win 10. However, due to incompatibility with VX Diag for VW, and a recommendation for Honda HDS, I replaced with Win 7 pro. SSM works the same on both OS'. Note that all that is available for use with VX Diag is SSM III, NOT SSM IV.

I'd imagine you've seen this, but some interesting info here: https://iptm.unf.edu/uploadedFiles/summit/handouts/Ruth R_EDR Update 2019.pdf .

Dallas

Wow! Thanks a ton! Very helpful, thanks for going the extra m. Do you see anywhere in there to poke around for the Eyesight system? I’m nearly certain I was looking in SSM3 when I was playing with it a year ago.

What site did you purchase from? Do you mind sharing the link?

And Rick is a rockstar within our community. He’s a great guy and full of awesome knowledge about EDR’s.

 

[DallasJW]

Yeah there is a button. I don't have EyeSight on my car, so unable to test anything on it. It looks like my pictures disappeared on the forum that I had posted originally. Turns out the creator(s) of the tool saw my post and posted it to their website. They messed with it a little bit, i.e. I don't think I said 'It's a good buy indeed.' (Even though it is.) One of the pictures shows the EyeSight button; last one on the menu.

VXDIAG Subaru SSM3 review on Impreza (with pictures) – VXdiagshop.com

You can purchase at that link also. I was skeptical as I couldn't really find anyone who confirmed this thing actually worked, so I bought it from Amazon in the event I needed to return it. Now if I were to buy again, I'd just buy from the store. I purchased a VW license from them directly and it was painless. I also emailed them about the different colors, apparently it doesn't really mean anything.

Dallas

 

[Joffa]

Hi Dallas I have played with mine again in recent months and went to start it up and had an error that SSM3 cant function without SSM4 being activated...... I did upgrade Firmware once or twice in the past few months, this may have been the cause. I did however email them (VX DIAG.com) and now technically have to reinstall it all, as as you know you need SSM4 installed to get SSM3 to operate....... ah the ups and downs of buying less than original equipment? if I'm allowed to mention that here?

Anyway on a frantic search as to why all of a sudden my SSM3 would'nt work I found a file allowing the hack/crack to get SSM4 to work..... yes indeed but was'nt from VXDIAG

A very different interface to SSM3 but essentially the same..ASSUMING THE SOFTWARE IS LITTERALLY THE SAME AS THE oem ssm 3/4 that get used in service centers. My points here though as you may be aware, this system is not in any way allowing the complete set of options to work much like previous SSM 3 and is coming up with that error. Although I have had some features tweaked and reset like error codes and my fuel ranging algorythim adjusted (10%) seems about accurate for my metric system here in regards to mileage and the trip meter comparison. Much more accurate now when predicting the range.

Originally I struggled with the concept I need the Car on Acc when making and resetting features and then turning the car off and on again to make the changes.....

Off topic Im keen to get the upper MFD technical service menu up (camera guide lines etc) and it seems the version to do that is posted on here somewhere and elsewhere is really only for Key Start versions but Id be keen to know if there is Keyless start version.

Is the VX Diag Worth it?? its a good question, the hack I found (PM me) Does allow SSM 4 to operate now and it saved me having to reinstall in the original way to operate the SSM3/4 setup, any thoughts would be great.

Joff
AU

 

[DallasJW]

Well I guess if you don’t have complete functionality with ssm Iv than the crack didn’t work completely. I’d just use iii as by the sounds of what you’re saying it doesn’t offer you any extra functionality anyway. You have to make sure that you run ssm iii from the vx diag software, not just clicking ssm iii from the desktop or start menu. If you run either iii or iv from somewhere other than vxdiag you may need to re-run the vx diag crack and or reinstall.

I don’t see anything that vx ssm iii can’t do that a dealer can do. It’s fully functional as far as I can tell. As to the question of whether it’s worth it, IMO it will be when you have an issue with any of the systems and can easily view live data and error codes. Or program a new key when you lose one.

 

[Joffa]

Yes It was merely that the Crack worked for me as this link explains to the querent (not me) either way it worked using the SSM4 application opposed to the original set up that I/we are supposed to do. Maybe if interested giver it a try? but yes I agree SSM3 seems quite fine although as I said there are restrictions it seems or Im just not reading the instructions correctly, as some features dont seem to work but then we have very diiferent MY XV's and are different world Markets

VXDIAG Subaru Cannot be started, activate SSM4 Error Solution - VXdiagshop.com

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blog.vxdiagshop.com

 

[danthe88]

Are there any alternatives to VxDiag, because I tried to order this for my 2017 XV, but there is only shipping from China, which costs more than the device itself...