[rlouie]

As all of you know, the revision of the car that we have either all owned, own, or will own is just around the corner. As such, we have started to move to the next revision of the website ourselves. We have also hinted that there would be upcoming changes to the forum with the new version. Many of you have probably already noticed the new logo at the top of the site highlighting the new revision of the car as well as paying homage to the current version.

The next change we are planning is to the forums themselves. The last major overhaul we did was to add the hybrid subforums. You might have noticed that we didn't duplicate all of the subforums and just add 'Hybrid' in front of the title but we added meaningful subforums only where the hybrid was different than the non-hybrids. In this fashion, rather than building a separate silo, the community became larger and tighter at the same time. We hope to do something similar for the next revision as well.

So, you are probably thinking, what's he rambling on about and get to the point!

The point is - keeping with our theme with the hybrids, we will be keeping all existing subforums rather than duplicating them for the next revision. What's changing is that we will be adding a 'prefix' for all post (new post will have the prefix chosen by the author of the post while older post will have the current revisions prefix automatically assigned). The 'prefix' will be a designation so that members can differentiate between the two revisions without having to read through the thread only to find out that it didn't apply to them.

What will it look like?

Currently, the title is pretty straight forward - the title is displayed as the original poster typed it when they created the thread. In the future, we will have the original poster select the proper 'prefix' corresponding to the revision of the car they are posting about.

Ex.
Currently - "Crosstreks rocks!"
Future - "[prefix] - Crosstreks rocks!"

For those of you who frequent car forums, this change is really nothing revolutionary as many other forums use a similar method in their forums as well. In an effort to give you a preview, in the next few days, the Classified subforum will have prefixes activated for 'For Sale', 'Sold', 'Looking For', and 'Found'.

Great! What's the prefixes going to be?

Since this forum is here not for us moderators but for you the members, we need your help in deciding what makes sense for you and future owners going forward. I've set up a poll with 3 formats of prefixes we have come up with. Please vote on what makes sense not only for you but for future members as well.

Before I explain the choices, please remember the following points:

• This forum is international. As such, the prefix should make sense to not only your location but to others as well.
• Subaru doesn't necessarily have the same release dates (or even years) for the same revision of car. For example, the XV/Crosstrek was released in North America as a 2013 model year but was released in Australia as a 2012 model year. This is going to be the same for the next revision as well.
• When creating a new thread, the webpage will display a long description of the prefix and once the thread has been created a short version will take it's place. The long description will be spelling out more details of the prefix while the short description makes it much easier to read.

The three options for a prefix are the following:

A. Use Generation X as the prefix with a description that spells out the model years as well as the regions where X is a number. (ie Short Description "Gen 1" ---> Long Description "MY12-16 World wide/MY13-MY17 North America")
Example - [Gen 1] - Crosstrek Rocks!

B. Use Subaru's internal designation for chassis type as the prefix with a description that spells out the model year - similar to above.
Example - [G5] - Crosstrek Rocks!

C. Use a model year range as a prefix with a description that spells out the model years as well as the regions. (ie "12-16" ---> includes MY13-MY17 in North America)
Example - [12-16] - Crosstrek Rocks!

We realize that each one has it's advantages and disadvantages so we are allowing the membership to provide feedback on which direction we should go. The Poll will be open for the next 14 days to allow for the work to be done prior to the release of the new revision in Australia! Please vote as your opinion matters!

If you have seen a better method in your travels across websites, please let us know!

BTW. Regardless of which format is chosen, we will also have a "General" prefix for those questions that span all model revisions - ie "how do you get tar off paint?"

 

[FLCrosstrekker]

Just want to take the opportunity to say thank you to Richard and all the moderators and admin for all the hard work they do to keep our list smooth running and a pleasant place to visit. It's a lot of work for an occasional tee shirt. Believe me, I've been there.

 

[DebsXV]

Just want to take the opportunity to say thank you to Richard and all the moderators and admin for all the hard work they do to keep our list smooth running and a pleasant place to visit. It's a lot of work for an occasional tee shirt. Believe me, I've been there.

....we get T-shirts???? Lol

 

[OrangeCrush]

Gotta keep it simple with the Model year range.

 

[vahallaoven]

I'm leaning toward Generation just because there is that slight difference in MY for Aussies and Japanese. However, if 2018 is coming out the same time for all countries then we could ignore the first MY for being goofy and stick with it. Model year is much more intuitive than generation.

Chassis type means absolutely nothing to me and may remain the same between major changes.

If we can use images instead of text, we should definitely use the wheel to distinguish them. :signlol:

 

[AWDfreak]

I completely disagree with the model year range.

Different markets get different model years. It's that simple. A 2001 Impreza in the USA isn't the same as a 2001 Impreza in the UK. I see this board as a board that represents the international Subaru XV community and I feel it is a disservice to have model years, but rather the more-accurate Subaru chassis designation be the deciding factor in dividing the forum sections based on generation.

Besides, chassis code doesn't change unless body style and/or generation changes.

For technical threads, chassis code will be the best way to clarify forum sections IMO. Regardless, please don't go the model year route and preferably go with the chassis code or generation designation.


Chassis code on a Subaru vehicle can be found within the vehicle's VIN (Vehicle Identification Number). Fourth and fifth digits are the two digits that designate your chassis code.

For example:
JF1 GPA XXXXXXXXXXX

The "GP" in the VIN indicates:
G = Impreza
P = fourth generation 5-door hatchback

The "G" in the fourth digit indicates the Impreza line.

The fifth digit (in the above case, the "P") indicates the generation and body style.


1st gen Subaru XV: GH chassis (based on 3rd generation Impreza hatch)
2nd gen Subaru XV: GP chassis (based on 4th generation Impreza hatch)
3rd gen Subaru XV: GT chassis (based on 5th generation Impreza hatch)

Yes, these are current chassis codes and are 100% accurate!

 

[DK_XV]

I completely disagree with the model year range.

Different markets get different model years. It's that simple. A 2001 Impreza in the USA isn't the same as a 2001 Impreza in the UK. I see this board as a board that represents the international Subaru XV community and I feel it is a disservice to have model years, but rather the more-accurate Subaru chassis designation be the deciding factor in dividing the forum sections based on generation.

Besides, chassis code doesn't change unless body style and/or generation changes.

For technical threads, chassis code will be the best way to clarify forum sections IMO. Regardless, please don't go the model year route and preferably go with the chassis code or generation designation.


Chassis code on a Subaru vehicle can be found within the vehicle's VIN (Vehicle Identification Number). Fourth and fifth digits are the two digits that designate your chassis code.

For example:
JF1 GPA XXXXXXXXXXX

The "GP" in the VIN indicates:
G = Impreza
P = fourth generation 5-door hatchback

The "G" in the fourth digit indicates the Impreza line.

The fifth digit (in the above case, the "P") indicates the generation and body style.


1st gen Subaru XV: GH chassis (based on 3rd generation Impreza hatch)
2nd gen Subaru XV: GP chassis (based on 4th generation Impreza hatch)
3rd gen Subaru XV: GT chassis (based on 5th generation Impreza hatch)

Yes, these are current chassis codes and are 100% accurate!

I like this. Although I agree, not many are instantly familiar with the chassis codes so combining the Generation # and chassis code might be a good idea. I also don't think that we should use years because it differs globally and will cause confusion.

[Gen1 GH]
[Gen2 GP]
[Gen3 GT]

Can it be done so that on hover over the designation a little thumbnail of the car pops up? That way people without a lot of knowledge of the car can instantly place what's being talked about.

 

[Bearded Squash]

I feel that Generation would be the least confusing. Most people aren't familiar with chassis codes and model year ranges vary from territory to territory.

Then again, generations also vary from territory to territory from what I understand. Also, some newbies may not know what generation their XV / Crosstrek is. Hmm... it's a tough call.

 

[OrangeCrush]

I completely disagree with the model year range.

1st gen Subaru XV: GH chassis (based on 3rd generation Impreza hatch)
2nd gen Subaru XV: GP chassis (based on 4th generation Impreza hatch)
3rd gen Subaru XV: GT chassis (based on 5th generation Impreza hatch)

Yes, these are current chassis codes and are 100% accurate!

Well thought out, but: if I'm the owner of a brand new Crosstrek and had questions about my 2018, I would most likely not know what Generation my XV is, nor would I know what G-chassis I had. I'd go one step further and explain what G-chassis should cover somewhere in the description. Nice. I change my vote.

 

[rlouie]

A lot of good discussion here folks! Thanks!

Please remember that we do have at our disposal two descriptions - the one that will actually be prefixed to the thread title (the short description) and the one that will be in the drop down box (the long description). If you are wondering what I mean, I have a look at the Classified subforum where we have 'FS' in the thread title and 'For Sale' in the drop down.

 

[born2nd]

....we get T-shirts???? Lol

...wet T-shirts ? whaaat ?!!

 

[AWDfreak]

I feel that Generation would be the least confusing. Most people aren't familiar with chassis codes and model year ranges vary from territory to territory.

Then again, generations also vary from territory to territory from what I understand. Also, some newbies may not know what generation their XV / Crosstrek is. Hmm... it's a tough call.

While certain generations were not sold in most markets (the notable one being the 1st generation), it is important to note that the first generation North America got is still a second generation Subaru XV, the same as how the second generation WRX and WRX STI were the first generations of WRX and WRX STI sold stateside but not necessarily first generation models.

As for newbies not knowing what generation and/or chassis code, that is why I propose my description to clarify chassis code on a vehicle makes the most sense, perhaps in one or multiple sticky threads. There is no disputing what the VIN on a Subaru vehicle indicates for chassis code. (The only exception to this Subaru rule are the old VIN layout that some 1st generation Subaru Leone models used.) It is a surefire, absolute way for a user to clarify which one they have rather than playing the guessing game based off of how it looks.

Short thread title description should be chassis code, second extended description should include both chassis code and generation. It would basically be self-explanatory hint that that chassis code is synonymous with generation.

For example:

EXAMPLE THREAD NAME [GP]
EXAMPLE THREAD NAME [GP: 2nd generation Subaru XV]

 

[JBartus]

I am of the mind that this forum should be a resource for all, not just enthusiasts or those with a high level of knowledge. I feel like the generation is the least messy one when it comes to comprehension by the end users, any of whom may have a greater or lesser level of knowledge about their car. Chassis codes mandate familiarity with that bit of information and the model year ranges are confusing at best, someone might dismiss a thread that says 12-16 because they own an NA 2017 and end up getting all kinds of incorrect information, Even as someone rather knowledgeable about his car I couldn't name the chassis code for the life of me. It would be a different matter if they were profoundly different but GH vs GP vs GT is not very intuitive, and for someone with only a passing familiarity the fact that two of the three have rhyming second letters only adds to the potential for confusion. Relying on people new to the community or just browsing in to know their VIN number and how to decode it strikes me as very presumptive with regards to the expected knowledge level of a reader.

I also think for SEO purposes the long form description is essential to display somewhere in the thread header so that search engines will pick up on it. I can't speak for everybody here but at least in my experience, back when I had a '97 Legacy SUS, I wasn't specifically looking for a forum or anything like that, I simply found that community as the result of my searching around for information on my car and I suspect that this is likely to be true of many people. The ease with which someone can come across a topic and this board while searching on a search engine for information about an issue can only serve to increase this board's utility as a resource, in addition to being a community of enthusiasts, for Crosstrek owners everywhere.

As an added thought, I think it would be helpful if you could mouse over a given prefix in the topic list view (and related views like the last post column of the forum listing) and get a tooltip with the full name/data to aid people in sifting through everything.

As yet another added thought, what do we do about topics that apply to some but not all generations/chassis-codes/year groupings?

And a final thought. Would it be possible to serve first-time visitors a modal window with some sort of javascript based tool that lets them get the information based upon region and year of their vehicle? Something like this maybe:

 

[rlouie]

I feel like the generation is the least messy one when it comes to comprehension by the end users, any of whom may have a greater or lesser level of knowledge about their car. Even as someone rather knowledgeable about his car I couldn't name the chassis code for the life of me. It would be a different matter if they were profoundly different but GH vs GP vs GT is not very intuitive, and for someone with only a passing familiarity the fact that two of the three have rhyming second letters only adds to the potential for confusion. Relying on people new to the community or just browsing in to know their VIN number and how to decode it strikes me as very presumptive with regards to the expected knowledge level of a reader. I am of the mind that this forum should be a resource for all, not just enthusiasts or those with a high level of knowledge.

I also think for SEO purposes the long form description is essential to display somewhere in the thread header so that search engines will pick up on it. I can't speak for everybody here but at least in my experience, back when I had a '97 Legacy SUS, I wasn't specifically looking for a forum or anything like that, I simply found that community as the result of my searching around for information on my car and I suspect that this is likely to be true of many people. The ease with which someone can come across a topic and this board while searching on a search engine for information about an issue can only serve to increase this board's utility as a resource, in addition to being a community of enthusiasts, for Crosstrek owners everywhere.

As an added thought, I think it would be helpful if you could mouse over a given prefix in the topic list view (and related views like the last post column of the forum listing) and get a tooltip with the full name/data to aid people in sifting through everything.

As yet another added thought, what do we do about topics that apply to some but not all generations/chassis-codes/year groupings?

Thanks for the insightful input.

At the end of the day, we are also at the mercy of what the software version that the forum is running can actually do for us. There are newer version of the software out there but this one seems to the most stable (from feedback from another forum) and works for the vast majority of the stuff that we do.

As for the topics that apply to some but not all groupings, we have to be realistic that site needs to be maintainable not only by the moderators but the user base itself. The average (even knowledgeable) user can't be depended on to know all of the generations/version that a topic will apply to so it's unrealistic for them to pick accurately. As for the moderators, I can really only speak for myself that I try to keep up with everything but there are definitely holes and gaps (some of them large enough to drive a truck through) in my knowledge which will make it impossible for accurate multi-generation inclusion for a topic. Even if I had the grey matter to know what I would need to know, I would not have the time to adjust threads, moderate the forums, and live a life outside of this forum! So, in short, something has got to give and multi-generational selection may be one of those things...

 

[AWDfreak]

I am of the mind that this forum should be a resource for all, not just enthusiasts or those with a high level of knowledge. I feel like the generation is the least messy one when it comes to comprehension by the end users, any of whom may have a greater or lesser level of knowledge about their car. Chassis codes mandate familiarity with that bit of information and the model year ranges are confusing at best, someone might dismiss a thread that says 12-16 because they own an NA 2017 and end up getting all kinds of incorrect information, Even as someone rather knowledgeable about his car I couldn't name the chassis code for the life of me. It would be a different matter if they were profoundly different but GH vs GP vs GT is not very intuitive, and for someone with only a passing familiarity the fact that two of the three have rhyming second letters only adds to the potential for confusion. Relying on people new to the community or just browsing in to know their VIN number and how to decode it strikes me as very presumptive with regards to the expected knowledge level of a reader.

I also think for SEO purposes the long form description is essential to display somewhere in the thread header so that search engines will pick up on it. I can't speak for everybody here but at least in my experience, back when I had a '97 Legacy SUS, I wasn't specifically looking for a forum or anything like that, I simply found that community as the result of my searching around for information on my car and I suspect that this is likely to be true of many people. The ease with which someone can come across a topic and this board while searching on a search engine for information about an issue can only serve to increase this board's utility as a resource, in addition to being a community of enthusiasts, for Crosstrek owners everywhere.

As an added thought, I think it would be helpful if you could mouse over a given prefix in the topic list view (and related views like the last post column of the forum listing) and get a tooltip with the full name/data to aid people in sifting through everything.

As yet another added thought, what do we do about topics that apply to some but not all generations/chassis-codes/year groupings?

And a final thought. Would it be possible to serve first-time visitors a modal window with some sort of javascript based tool that lets them get the information based upon region and year of their vehicle? Something like this maybe:
http://i.imgur.com/NCRPobY.png

My reasoning behind having members check their chassis code is instead of presuming generation of vehicle, direct verification is the surefire way of identifying a member's generation of vehicle.

A sticky thread for new members should include the description I posted on how to find the chassis code on their vehicle. Again, this is not to imply forum members memorize their VIN, just for them to LOOK at their VIN and know what their chassis code is. I consider myself a somewhat-knowledgeable Subaru enthusiast forum member and I have not even memorized my own VIN. It is completely unrealistic to expect members to remember their VIN.

It is, however, not unrealistic for forum members to eventually memorize their chassis code, much like most remember their model year.


That javascript-based tool would be excellent and I too would love something like that to further clarify to members what they have if they can't be bothered to go look at their vehicle's VIN.


From my perspective, I would deliberately have members immediately identify their vehicle by looking (not memorizing) the VIN on their vehicle to verify its generation. Rather than waste time playing the guessing game (different generation models may look too similar to casual users), having users be proactive to look at their VIN plate and know exactly what they have completely clarifies discussion depending upon the topic.


As for forum sections with multi-generational coverage, some forums have it where the exterior and interior are generational-specific, while some exclusively rely upon the prefix system. For simplicity's sake, a prefix system would likely be best to implement considering the 2nd gen and 3rd gen will still likely share quite a few mechanical components that are similar. Though the platform is different on the 3rd gen with the new Subaru Global Platform, I have no doubt that many things will be similar mechanically.

 

[RallyeBourne]

I'm in for the chassis code method.

If you look at some of the most successful automotive forums around, you notice a majority of them utilize a chassis code method of identification. My old stomping grounds (Audizine) used this, and through use of a chassis code organization method I learned that my chassis code was B5. The forum I frequented before that was FiestaFaction, and that site did NOT use chassis codes. And when the next gen Fiesta came around, the site all but died.

Have some faith in people. They might surprise you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rlouie]

I'm in for the chassis code method.

If you look at some of the most successful automotive forums around, you notice a majority of them utilize a chassis code method of identification. My old stomping grounds (Audizine) used this, and through use of a chassis code organization method I learned that my chassis code was B5. The forum I frequented before that was FiestaFaction, and that site did NOT use chassis codes. And when the next gen Fiesta came around, the site all but died.

Have some faith in people. They might surprise you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

First off, I'm sorry. Sorry for what? That you had to experience an Audi before you came to your senses and bought a Subaru.

If I'm not mistaken, the European automakers often have separate launches of a new platform over a period of years in different geographical regions - ie. comes out in Europe first and then the following year, it's brought to North America.

 

[RallyeBourne]

First off, I'm sorry. Sorry for what? That you had to experience an Audi before you came to your senses and bought a Subaru.

If I'm not mistaken, the European automakers often have separate launches of a new platform over a period of years in different geographical regions - ie. comes out in Europe first and then the following year, it's brought to North America.

Honestly, I LOVED that car. And I will be buying another when the right one pops up. I even have a deal with the guy that bought it from me that he will offer it to me before selling it, no matter what. I even told him I'd pay what it's worth in the condition it will be in. So if he drops a ton of money into it rebuilding the motor, big turbo, etc. I'm not going to be like "Well, you only paid me $1800 for it so you have to sell it back to me for that." He still keeps in contact. Damn, I loved that car... but the Subaru is loved just as much, just differently. They really are vastly different cars. And I've modified them both in vastly different ways.

But yes, you are correct. Many EUDM manufacturers stagger their launches just like Subaru. Which again, makes Chassis code designations that much more appealing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rlouie]

For the sake of the discussion, let's say we go with chassis codes (not committing to anything at this point in time).

How do the chassis code backers deal with the issues that other members have brought up? Yes, there are stickys but they only go so far. Even with subforums, they only go so far... many of them have obvious titles and the rest (while could probably be improved) have pretty good ones but yet a high percentage of new threads are put in the wrong forum (ie the first one that everyone goes to "Subaru XV General Discussion Forum") when they should have gone into the other subforums. I can see that happening with chassis codes (and to a lesser extent the other methods) in that the wrong is picked or they just go with the default.

Please note - I'm not bashing chassis codes at all and think it's a contender (hence it was included in the three possible methods) but as a community we do need to be welcoming and easy to get along - part of that is making it easy for new members to get into the community and start learning and contributing.

So an ask from me to you is - let's see if we can come up with a relatively simple method for a new novice 'not a car person' member understand what we are saying and post effectively. But before you post your suggestion, it has to pass one test... I call it the 'uninterested significant other test'. The basis of this test is that everyone on this forum probably knows someone who:

1. Thinks you spend too much time on your car;
2. When you talk to them about your car, they just roll their eyes and humour you; or,
3. can't remember the make or model of your car even though you told them 50+ times.

The system should be easy enough for this uninterested person to understand so that they can post using the right prefix. Bonus brownie points will be awarded if they can also post to the right subforum at the same time!

 

[OrangeCrush]

My guess, that in the U.S., buyers know their car as a (example) 2018 Crosstrek (Premium)(Limited) ...mmm...that's about it. Heck, I wouldn't have known chassis codes unless I was on the forums. It makes perfect sense to me now, but...