[fbov]

I don’t see the benefits of a hybrid. ... Soon it will be pure EV in a decade or two and people will look back on hybrid saying what was all that for?

Hybrid cars are a transition step. We get a much better EV future the more we leave oil in the ground.

a hybrid makes no financial sense for us.

PHEV are not HEV and Subaru doesn't make an HEV. Ironically, its the PHEV that can make sense for some.

It also makes no environmental sense.

Leaving oil in the ground makes tremendous environmental sense.

hybrid is the only really viable option

And that's the rub through the transition period! Imagine the benefit if every vehicle used 2/3 the fuel!

Numerous articles on the subject can be found in New Scientist, Scientific American

CLICKBAIT ALERT

Nothing from New Scientist, nothing from SA, just some woman quoting herself. Is anyone surprised that a car makes more CO2 when the engine's running than when it's not? Nothing unexpected is happening... tempest in a teapot.

Honestly, the information in the article is not surprising to me.

See above. It's easy to get sucked in if you hear what you expect to hear.

my overnight rate is .06/kWH.

Careful... quoted rates are much lower than your marginal rate (what you pay for the next kWh). My "rate" is $0.05, but it costs me $0.08 to buy the next kWh, a 60% difference.

careful whose advice you listen to.

Amen!

And I got this wrong. Subaru's not nuts.
If you are thinking strongly about a hybrid, shop elsewhere. Subaru's hybrid CrossTrek is a non-starter. It's little things... a plug-in is judged by its range (short) and HVB capacity (small), but what turned me off is the engine must run if you want heat or air conditioning, IN A PLUG-IN!!!!! Subaru management's not very interested in this market... might be a Toyota thing.

 

[fbov]

One last bit on reliability, and the perception that motors and batteries are more complex and less reliable. That's false.

The neat thing about electricity is that it doesn't "wear out" the wire. It's mechanical contact that kills cars, and all EV contact points involve a lubricated bearing. Expect brakes and tires to wear out, and normal chassis gremlins are still there because an EV is still mostly a conventional car. Expect the hybrid drivetrain to go 250K at minimum without degradation, while BEVs will lose a little range.

FYI, I just ordered a CrossTrek Limited, and having driven hybrids for a decade, seriously considered the Subaru offering. Neat transmission that I don't quite understand (CVT or eCVT?), but I really don't understand why no HEV? Seems like a better offering, given the PHEV shortcomings (non-issue when engine runs frequently).

 

[dpc166]

Careful... quoted rates are much lower than your marginal rate (what you pay for the next kWh). My "rate" is $0.05, but it costs me $0.08 to buy the next kWh, a 60% difference.

If you are thinking strongly about a hybrid, shop elsewhere. Subaru's hybrid CrossTrek is a non-starter. It's little things... a plug-in is judged by its range (short) and HVB capacity (small), but what turned me off is the engine must run if you want heat or air conditioning, IN A PLUG-IN!!!!! Subaru management's not very interested in this market... might be a Toyota thing.

Quoted rate is simply the generation rate. Mine is $0.03. Then there is the transmission rate and the distribution rate. Total for me is $0.10/kWh when all is done.

You are absolutely wrong that the 'engine must run if you want heat or air conditioning'. I have no problem running either system (and even the defrosters) without the engine running. The car has a heat pump that produces the heat or air conditioning.

 

[fbov]

You are absolutely wrong...

Quite possible. I was recalling research that led us to decide against the Hybrid. I've since downloaded the owners' manual, manufacturer's documentation, which talks about the heat pump: "When driving using electronic motor, heating is done by a heat pump system. (P. 276)" Since everyone puts in AC A/C before a heat pump (over resistive heating).

I'll update my post, and might need to revisit the Limited purchase decision....

 

[dpc166]

Quite possible. I was recalling research that led us to decide against the Hybrid. I've since downloaded the owners' manual, manufacturer's documentation, which talks about the heat pump: "When driving using electronic motor, heating is done by a heat pump system. (P. 276)" Since everyone puts in AC A/C before a heat pump (over resistive heating).

I'll update my post, and might need to revisit the Limited purchase decision....

The other thing to note is with the remote start system (via app or key fob), it only works if there is enough battery power in the high voltage battery. The remote start system will not run if there is no battery and will not run the engine. Depending on how you look at it, it can be a great thing unless you have no battery left and are just driving in conventional hybrid mode.

 

[AstroKats]

Why not? The point of a hybrid is that it behaves like an ICE if no battery. What am I missing?

 

[dpc166]

Why not? The point of a hybrid is that it behaves like an ICE if no battery. What am I missing?

Not sure what you're asking. Are you asking why the remote start system doesn't work if you don't have any EV battery power?

If so, I'm really not sure why. Manual doesn't go into any detail about why.

 

[AstroKats]

Not sure what you're asking. Are you asking why the remote start system doesn't work if you don't have any EV battery power?

If so, I'm really not sure why. Manual doesn't go into any detail about why.

Yes, that surprised me.

 

[fbov]

... the remote start system... only works if there is enough battery power in the high voltage battery.

I would only expect remote start when plugged in....

 

[AstroKats]

I would only expect remote start when plugged in....

Why?

ICE cars can be remotely started any time...

 

[dpc166]

I would only expect remote start when plugged in....

I'm not exactly sure how it's wired, but I actually love the fact that the remote climate control works off the battery. On a standard ICE car, it's running the engine, radio, climate, and exterior lights of the car. For the plug-in hybrid, it simply runs the climate control only. Now, the downside to this is that it does not run the heated seats if you have them turned on. It's certainly a rare situation for me where I would need to run the climate control remotely and have no battery remaining. If the battery was all gone, I wouldn't worry about it much and just get in and go.

I enjoy the fact that when I have my car plugged in and it's in the garage in the dead of winter, I can start the car early to preheat the interior and the car will automatically start recharging the battery so when I'm ready to go, the car is warm and I have a full battery.

 

[AstroKats]

Good for you! However, as I've written before, not everyone lives in a "single family home" with a garage. I haven't Googled the stats but I'm guessing that the hybrid doesn't make sense for most of the people in the market for a new Crosstrek. Subaru is probably only doing it to meet environmental regulations.

 

[dpc166]

Good for you! However, as I've written before, not everyone lives in a "single family home" with a garage. I haven't Googled the stats but I'm guessing that the hybrid doesn't make sense for most of the people in the market for a new Crosstrek. Subaru is probably only doing it to meet environmental regulations.

Maybe not, but there are certainly free chargers all over. In fact, there are 22 free Volta chargers in the Santa Monica area alone. If you were one that stays in the area, you would be able to take advantage of the free charging whenever you're driving around (not to mention the entire greater LA area). Volta chargers are nice because they're at places people frequent (CVS pharmacy, Whole Foods, etc.) and they're all free.

Again, my reply earlier in this thread was not directed toward you, but given the benefits of the free charging infrastructure in your area, I could certainly see the benefit of having a plug-in hybrid and no garage to charge it overnight.

I live in a suburban area with a lack of charging stations. I only have 2 free chargers nearby so home charging would be key to owning a plug-in hybrid. If I was in an urban environment like the greater LA area with more than 100 free chargers alone and no way to charge overnight at home (not to mention $6/gal gas), I still might get the plug-in.

Here's a map of the free Volta chargers in the LA area:

 

[AstroKats]

Yes, I've seen them at both of the Whole Foods that we frequent but no one seems to be using them. At the big Whole Foods here there are hundreds of spaces and maybe two charging spots. We're an extremely progressive city in a progressive state so that's kind of odd?

 

[R P]

In Santa Monica, you can now get food deliveries by an autonomous Ioniq 5. You can help save the planet by not driving your ICE car to get groceries, and don't even have to buy an EV.

Driverless Hyundai Ioniq 5 Starts Delivering Food With Uber Eats

Motional and Uber have launched autonomous end-to-end food deliveries for customers in Santa Monica, California, on the Uber Eats network.

insideevs.com

 

[dpc166]

Yes, I've seen them at both of the Whole Foods that we frequent but no one seems to be using them. At the big Whole Foods here there are hundreds of spaces and maybe two charging spots. We're an extremely progressive city in a progressive state so that's kind of odd?

I think what Volta does is nice. They're free to use and they have screens that show advertising that pay for it so the user doesn't. Their mantra is to plug in while you shop and then when you drive to your next errand location, you'll plug in again. They bank on dwell time at the store, so if it's Whole Foods, they assume you plug in and then shop for the 45-60min or however long. Last night my wife was in the store and I plugged in for a solid 15min and got enough mileage that compensated for the last 2 miles home.

 

[AstroKats]

In Santa Monica, you can now get food deliveries by an autonomous Ioniq 5. You can help save the planet by not driving your ICE car to get groceries, and don't even have to buy an EV.

Driverless Hyundai Ioniq 5 Starts Delivering Food With Uber Eats

Motional and Uber have launched autonomous end-to-end food deliveries for customers in Santa Monica, California, on the Uber Eats network.

insideevs.com

Yeah, I use Uber occasionally, usually Lyft, and have been barraged by Uber with ads for this. Haven't tried it yet. The times I've used rideshare companies to get take out or groceries have not been good experiences, so far. And we're in Silicon Beach...

 

[R P]

Yeah, I use Uber occasionally, usually Lyft, and have been barraged by Uber with ads for this. Haven't tried it yet. The times I've used rideshare companies to get take out or groceries have not been good experiences, so far. And we're in Silicon Beach...

Yeah, but this one is driverless..., only available for deliveries though, not driving passengers.

 

[AstroKats]

Yeah, but this one is driverless..., only available for deliveries though, not driving passengers.

I'm curious enough to try it!

 

[dpc166]

I managed to get my best mileage yet with the hybrid, 26.2 miles before the engine turned on. Pretty impressive and a more than 150% improvement over the EPA estimated range. Not a lot of wind that day and it was in the 90s for temperature. I did not use climate control either.