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Just read the same article and was surprised to see Subaru in there...
 

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I'm very disappointed in Subaru. The political reason is to help stave off tariffs. But, would rather Subaru side with BMW, Ford, Volkswagen and Honda in setting higher standards in cooperation with California.

I sent a tweet to Subaru.......wonder if will get answer, if do....it won't be satisfactory....
 

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Thanks for posting the article. It sure highlights the pressures that our administration can bring forth in the name of short term profits above all else.
 

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I happen to agree with Subaru, Toyota, et al. Overly aggressive CAFE/emissions standards are the reason we have problematic direct injected engines and annoying Auto Stop/Start. I'm all for cleaning up the environment but at some point EPA/CalEPA regulations reach the "law of diminishing returns" (as it applies to fuel efficiency and pollution) and I think we are just about there with the internal combustion engine.
 

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Vancouver, BC, Canada CGK 2018 Ltd EyeSight
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I happen to agree with Subaru, Toyota, et al. Overly aggressive CAFE/emissions standards are the reason we have problematic direct injected engines and annoying Auto Stop/Start. I'm all for cleaning up the environment but at some point EPA/CalEPA regulations reach the "law of diminishing returns" (as it applies to fuel efficiency and pollution) and I think we are just about there with the internal combustion engine.
Definitely a no-win situation for most automakers... and consumers (higher costs). But at least they are being honest and open about their concerns and views. Like it or not, clean air is going to cost all of us. And the faster we go for it, the more it will cost.

EVs are the way to go, IMO. As some on this forum know, I own a Kona EV and have become a big proponent of EVs. However, today they still have some serious limitations, and are not for everyone and can't be used for all situations. My EV is good for around town driving and short trips. But I still need my Crosstrek for off-road to my cabin, snow when going up in the mtns, long trips, and towing my boat.

Good news, is better EVs are on the way, and hopefully more charging infrastructure. The new Toyota/Subaru EVs will be out in a few years, and I expect they will be a few steps ahead of what is available today. And there will be more competition then, too. Timing will be good too, as there should be more charging infrastructure, and hopefully mass production will bring the costs down somewhat.
 

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2013 XV Crosstrek, Tangerine Orange
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I'm counting on you guys to stick to the subject at hand, and not let this one devolve into a political fight. ;)

But yeah, I'm pretty disappointed in Subaru on this one, too. I know the fuel efficiency regs are tough for them, since they don't have any high-MPG econoboxes in their lineup to push their overall MPG average up, like many carmakers do ... but still, if the regs do get rolled back they have to know this is only a temporary deferral. They'll have to face the music sooner or later, and they might as well get to work on it.
 

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2018 XV 2.0iS CVT in Dark Blue
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CAFE is good, but pushing it too fast is bad. Letting one state run the whole country is the point of the fight though wasn't it?
Regardless, EVs just move the pollution around, from cleaning up all the batteries to the electricity to charge. And California can't keep the lights on as it is.
 

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I'm counting on you guys to stick to the subject at hand, and not let this one devolve into a political fight. ;)

But yeah, I'm pretty disappointed in Subaru on this one, too. I know the fuel efficiency regs are tough for them, since they don't have any high-MPG econoboxes in their lineup to push their overall MPG average up, like many carmakers do ... but still, if the regs do get rolled back they have to know this is only a temporary deferral. They'll have to face the music sooner or later, and they might as well get to work on it.
Now I understand more about how it works, it makes more sense to me - encouraging manufacturers to include more EVs, hybrids and even hydrogen vehicles in their line-ups, not trying to make a gas-powered Crosstrek that gets 50mpg.

I'm really disappointed that hydrogen is not a bigger part of the equation. It eliminates the charge time issue and the not so environmentally-friendly aspect of lithium batteries.
 

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2013 XV Crosstrek, Tangerine Orange
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Now I understand more about how it works, it makes more sense to me - encouraging manufacturers to include more EVs, hybrids and even hydrogen vehicles in their line-ups, not trying to make a gas-powered Crosstrek that gets 50mpg.
Yep, that's clearly why Subaru is getting dragged kicking and screaming into the EV world, and why we've seen the two generations of hybrid Crosstreks ... even though they were both pretty clearly just works-in-progress. Even with its Toyota partnership, Subaru has some catching up to do in this regard.

And I'm sure Subaru is especially worried because the Boxer engine is one of the main differentiations between Subaru and other brands. The brand will be a harder sell if the Boxer goes away and there's just a Toyota EV system under the hood.

As for pollution, the studies I've seen give a pretty clear advantage to EVs regardless of where the electricity comes from, though of course it varies a lot depending on the power generation methods used locally. We do pretty well up here because most of our electricity is hydropower ... but at the same time, the long, rural distances we travel make EVs really impractical for most Montanans. It will require a real technology leap for that to change.
 

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Yep, that's clearly why Subaru is getting dragged kicking and screaming into the EV world, and why we've seen the two generations of hybrid Crosstreks ... even though they were both pretty clearly just works-in-progress. Even with its Toyota partnership, Subaru has some catching up to do in this regard.

And I'm sure Subaru is especially worried because the Boxer engine is one of the main differentiations between Subaru and other brands. The brand will be a harder sell if the Boxer goes away and there's just a Toyota EV system under the hood.

As for pollution, the studies I've seen give a pretty clear advantage to EVs regardless of where the electricity comes from, though of course it varies a lot depending on the power generation methods used locally. We do pretty well up here because most of our electricity is hydropower ... but at the same time, the long, rural distances we travel make EVs really impractical for most Montanans. It will require a real technology leap for that to change.
Hydrogen would solve that problem. All you'd have to do is build the infrastructure, LOL!
 

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Most of the electricity here in Hawaii is produced by oil fired generators, and that oil is transported thousands of miles by oil burning ships.
Yep, that's one of the issues and a lot of consumers aren't aware of them, or bother to dig deep, and just accept the sales blurb. Even here in California, almost half of the electricity is generated from natural gas. It's cleaner than coal but still a non-renewable fossil fuel.

Have I mentioned hydrogen? 😸
 

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Highly pressurized hydrogen? Yes, you mentioned it lol
It still needs to be "refined", abundant yes but not trivial to pluck out of thin air on a large scale. And as you mentioned the infrastructure is no small task either.
Nothing is fee, batteries destroy the environment (both mining the metals and disposing of), refining anything makes pollution. We can't keep shipping spent batteries to China while patting ourselves on the back. Solar seems the best choice to me and there's a lot of work being put into how to store the energy collected, but at best it will be supplemental.
yada yada and etc etc
Steps off the box.
 

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Highly pressurized hydrogen? Yes, you mentioned it lol
It still needs to be "refined", abundant yes but not trivial to pluck out of thin air on a large scale. And as you mentioned the infrastructure is no small task either.
Nothing is fee, batteries destroy the environment (both mining the metals and disposing of), refining anything makes pollution. We can't keep shipping spent batteries to China while patting ourselves on the back. Solar seems the best choice to me and there's a lot of work being put into how to store the energy collected, but at best it will be supplemental.
yada yada and etc etc
Steps off the box.
Solar would be great but how to store the energy? Why not use it to make hydrogen?
 

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But still, if the regs do get rolled back they have to know this is only a temporary deferral. They'll have to face the music sooner or later, and they might as well get to work on it.
Neither proposal is seeking to "roll back" regulation to past or current standards. Instead the proposal backed by Subaru calls for a 1.5% annual increase in fuel efficiency while the California proposal calls for a 4.7% annual increase in fuel efficiency. Both are increases, not roll-backs, from present-day standards.
 

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Even here in California, almost half of the electricity is generated from natural gas. It's cleaner than coal but still a non-renewable fossil fuel.
Until electric power plants convert to green energy, EV's are simply transferring pollution from tailpipes to smokestacks. Not to say that is a bad thing as it is part of the evolution that will eventually lead to better air quality down the road.
 

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Until electric power plants convert to green energy, EV's are simply transferring pollution from tailpipes to smokestacks. Not to say that is a bad thing as it is part of the evolution that will eventually lead to better air quality down the road.
Yep, only the most savvy consumers are also considering where the electricity comes from...
 

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Highly pressurized hydrogen? Yes, you mentioned it lol
It still needs to be "refined", abundant yes but not trivial to pluck out of thin air on a large scale. And as you mentioned the infrastructure is no small task either.
Nothing is fee, batteries destroy the environment (both mining the metals and disposing of), refining anything makes pollution. We can't keep shipping spent batteries to China while patting ourselves on the back. Solar seems the best choice to me and there's a lot of work being put into how to store the energy collected, but at best it will be supplemental.
yada yada and etc etc
Steps off the box.
You say refining anything makes pollution.The refining process for hydrogen is nothing at all like refining oil into gasoline.You can use clean energy like wind,solar and hydro to produce electricity.Pass that electricity through water and you will split the water molecule into oxygen and hydrogen.That hydrogen can be combined with oxygen in a fuel cell to produce electricity or it can be burned in an IC engine.In both cases the byproduct is the same.Combine hydrogen with oxygen and you get plain old water.Where's the pollution?
 
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