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If your daily commute if less than 17 miles round trip. The ICE will never turn on so you can go thousands of miles without firing up the engine. What I've done in the past with our Prius Prime is I try to always keep the gas tank full so there is no additional space in the tank because a empty tank will create moisture which can corrosion. Also I try to fill up with Enthanol Free gas (pure-gas.org) which will keep the fresh gas longer without ethanol because ethanol absorbs moisture.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
I believe the Crosstrek is supposed to have a pressurized fuel tank which is supposed to eliminate the empty space you're concerned about. But it's counter-intuitive to spend $4 for E0 gasoline here with a hybrid...
 

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I'm not trying to promote Ethanol free gas for ICE cars. It's just for PHEV owners that will go many months on 1 tank of gas. Here in Denver Colorado our regular gas cost around $2.20/ gallon and Ethanol Free gas cost $2.50/ gallon. There's pro and con's of Ethanol Free gas and we can debate for pages on why the government subsidies corn ethanol and make tax payer pay for it. Common sense tells me that corn is sugar, and sugar leads to cancer. I don't want my brand new PHEV drinking cancer ;)
 

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And to follow up on the original question on Regrets of buying PHEV. I've owned a 2017 Rav4 Hybrid a 2018 Prius Prime and 2020 Crosstrek Hybrid now and there is absolutely NO regret at all. Yes saving gas in EV mode feels good for my soul but I'm also saving money and polluting my city less. And if you live in Colorado we get a $4000 state tax rebate plus federal $4500 tax credit so in total I'm getting a $8500 discount off of the $33,500 price paid for my 2020 Crosstrek Hybrid (no trade in base model MSRP $36,155).
 

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My max on a tank of gas so far is 1095.5 miles! I keep track of when I run my engine because I try to run it once a week to keep the seals and all lubricated (and also enough miles so I don't ruin the catalytic converter).
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Alright, took a stroll in the Crosstrek Hybrid today, about a 4-5 mile jog on 35-45 mph zones. It's pretty cold out today, below freezing, so as a result the car was in and out of ICE mode pretty often (as I had expected.)

Thoughts:

  • I liked the EV mode engagement. It did have a spaceship-type of sound when the EV motors were turning, but overall it was a significantly quieter experience inside. In fact, when the ICE did turn on, aside from the "noise" of the engine, I didn't feel or notice anything else.
  • I liked the no AutoStartStop engagement because it was pretty much in EV mode at this point anyway since there was no throttle input and I was regen-braking coming to a stop light/stop sign. There was none of the pronounced "jerkiness" I noticed from my Forester when the AS/S engages or deactivates.
  • Cargo area is pretty good for what this car is - a compact crossover. It can fit a couple of pieces of luggage, and when the seats are down, it's perfectly fine.
  • The moonroof does make the interior headroom a little tighter. I did check out the ICE Crosstrek without the Moonroof and I liked it better.
  • The heated steering wheel in the Hybrid was glorious. Unfortunately this is linked with the Moonroof package (boo)
  • Would have liked the rear seats to recline a little like they can in the Outback / Ascent. Obviously the battery is back there, but it would have been nice to eek a little extra rear headroom out. Anyone over 6' will probably feel cramped in the rear seat.
  • As verified by service today, the Hybrid still has the 6 month / 6,000 mile service interval, even if 90% of your driving is accomplished under EV mode.
  • Would have liked to see Auto Lane Centering make its way into the model. Maybe next year. This is likely a major holdup for me...
The sticker on this one, as optioned, was a hair over $39,000 including destination. Adding sales tax, we're at $41,583. Fortunately, we can subtract the Federal Tax Credit and bring this down to $37,083. (Though your loan will be based off of the total amount financed, regardless.) Because they're in relatively high demand compared to the supply and availability, all sources seem to suggest that this will be close to the MSRP for the car itself - but not MSRP for the options and accessories.)

It's a tough call at this point, as I'd be looking to purchase the next vehicle to hold for at least 10 years.

But, in summary, the Crosstrek Hybrid is an agile crossover that heralds the return of Subaru into the PHEV market. Hopefully this will continue to expand through the fleet in a couple other models (would be cool to see this in the flagship Outback or even an Ascent) to help boost city fuel economy.

The Crosstrek, to my specific situation, appears to be great for passengers OR cargo, but not both simultaneously. I'd have to consider a roof box if this ends up being my car.
 

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Alright, took a stroll in the Crosstrek Hybrid today, about a 4-5 mile jog on 35-45 mph zones. It's pretty cold out today, below freezing, so as a result the car was in and out of ICE mode pretty often (as I had expected.)

Thoughts:

  • I liked the EV mode engagement. It did have a spaceship-type of sound when the EV motors were turning, but overall it was a significantly quieter experience inside. In fact, when the ICE did turn on, aside from the "noise" of the engine, I didn't feel or notice anything else.
  • I liked the no AutoStartStop engagement because it was pretty much in EV mode at this point anyway since there was no throttle input and I was regen-braking coming to a stop light/stop sign. There was none of the pronounced "jerkiness" I noticed from my Forester when the AS/S engages or deactivates.
  • Cargo area is pretty good for what this car is - a compact crossover. It can fit a couple of pieces of luggage, and when the seats are down, it's perfectly fine.
  • The moonroof does make the interior headroom a little tighter. I did check out the ICE Crosstrek without the Moonroof and I liked it better.
  • The heated steering wheel in the Hybrid was glorious. Unfortunately this is linked with the Moonroof package (boo)
  • Would have liked the rear seats to recline a little like they can in the Outback / Ascent. Obviously the battery is back there, but it would have been nice to eek a little extra rear headroom out. Anyone over 6' will probably feel cramped in the rear seat.
  • As verified by service today, the Hybrid still has the 6 month / 6,000 mile service interval, even if 90% of your driving is accomplished under EV mode.
  • Would have liked to see Auto Lane Centering make its way into the model. Maybe next year. This is likely a major holdup for me...
The sticker on this one, as optioned, was a hair over $39,000 including destination. Adding sales tax, we're at $41,583. Fortunately, we can subtract the Federal Tax Credit and bring this down to $37,083. (Though your loan will be based off of the total amount financed, regardless.) Because they're in relatively high demand compared to the supply and availability, all sources seem to suggest that this will be close to the MSRP for the car itself - but not MSRP for the options and accessories.)

It's a tough call at this point, as I'd be looking to purchase the next vehicle to hold for at least 10 years.

But, in summary, the Crosstrek Hybrid is an agile crossover that heralds the return of Subaru into the PHEV market. Hopefully this will continue to expand through the fleet in a couple other models (would be cool to see this in the flagship Outback or even an Ascent) to help boost city fuel economy.

The Crosstrek, to my specific situation, appears to be great for passengers OR cargo, but not both simultaneously. I'd have to consider a roof box if this ends up being my car.
Glad you enjoyed the test drive. It does have those spaceship sounds, but pretty much all hybrids do that. This one just has the audible noises when driving below 25mph, but you forget about that stuff when you drive it enough.

Heated steering wheel would be nice if we could buy that separately and install (not terribly difficult) and I'm sure it has the relays and fuse ready to go in the car even if you didn't get that package.

You can likely find a dealer in NJ that will sell below MSRP. If you go to Vineland, RK Subaru will cut you a deal. They were the only one in NJ I found that would do that and good on them because it helps their business vs those other guys!

Regarding maintenance, yeah the 6mo/6k mi is the same. The big reason behind that is because as oil ages (in use or not) it turns acidic and can eat away at the aluminum parts. Always best to be safe and do your oil every 6 months regardless if you only put 2,000mi on the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Yeah, never had a car with a heated steering wheel before, definitely on the "list" now... It's still on my radar for replacements for my Forester once my lease is up, but not life-altering enough for me to consider breaking the lease early (assuming anyone would even buy it out, anyway...)

Had some glitches on my Forester's AutoStartStop system recently, have been disabling it unfortunately... which leads to around 20-22 city mpg. Gross.
 

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Hi Pilot1226, if you don’t need buy a car right away, I would seriously look at the 2021 RAV4 Prime. The 2020 RAV4 Hybrid XSE starts at MSRP $35,420 and I’m guessing the 2021 Prime will have a MSRP starting around $40,000 (federal $7500 credit)

My big compliant about the 2020 Crosstrek PHEV is that you can’t lock the EV mode so when you step on throttle aggressively the ICE starts up. On the Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime the EV mode will be locked so you can accelerate 0-40mph pedal to metal.

Toyota owns a majority share in Subaru so your not being disloyal if you switch. I usually trade and buy cars every year or two. For now my next purchase will probably be a 2021 RAV4 Prime and also keep a eye on the 2022 Tesla Cybertruck MSRP starting at $40,000.

To buy a Subaru at invoice price, I recommend emailing dealers on the coast such as Portland, OR or NJ NY. Fly there and drive it back to your home state. Use the ‘edmunds’ app to look up Invoice price usually $2-3k below MSRP.
 

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Interesting. This has come up before. I wondered if the hype had subsided and the PHEVs were selling for the same kinds of discounts as the ICE version but I guess not. Invoice is typically around 93% of MSRP and final sales prices of up to $1K below invoice are common. So that's an extra $3-4K to factor in when considering the PHEV.
 

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Hi Pilot1226, if you don’t need buy a car right away, I would seriously look at the 2021 RAV4 Prime. The 2020 RAV4 Hybrid XSE starts at MSRP $35,420 and I’m guessing the 2021 Prime will have a MSRP starting around $40,000 (federal $7500 credit)

My big compliant about the 2020 Crosstrek PHEV is that you can’t lock the EV mode so when you step on throttle aggressively the ICE starts up. On the Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime the EV mode will be locked so you can accelerate 0-40mph pedal to metal.

Toyota owns a majority share in Subaru so your not being disloyal if you switch. I usually trade and buy cars every year or two. For now my next purchase will probably be a 2021 RAV4 Prime and also keep a eye on the 2022 Tesla Cybertruck MSRP starting at $40,000.

To buy a Subaru at invoice price, I recommend emailing dealers on the coast such as Portland, OR or NJ NY. Fly there and drive it back to your home state. Use the ‘edmunds’ app to look up Invoice price usually $2-3k below MSRP.
One of the biggest downsides to the Rav4 Prime is that it's not mechanical AWD like Subaru. Rav4 Prime is FWD until tires slip, then the motor kicks in to power the rear wheels for traction.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
That’s correct, the RAV4 Prime has eAWD which essentially waits for a loss of traction before kicking in. I believe this is the same AWD that the current RAV4 Hybrid has, so I YouTube’d some videos of their performance. Try to find neutral reviews rather than fanboys making videos.

I am part of the Subaru VIP program thanks to my membership in Leave No Trace. This gets me invoice pricing with no negotiation. I know I can do better if I really push but it’s just easier sometimes to avoid the haggle.

I am not a huge fan of the Toyota interiors and what feels like higher pressure sales tactics.

I liked the Crosstrek, I just have to get more serious when the lease ends. Subaru might have something else next year, never know... but I do know that I want an EV or Hybrid next...
 

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My story:

I bought the 2020 Hybrid in mid Dec. MSRP was $40,026 with Nav package, trailer hitch (for bikes), and a couple of other accessories. The deal was for $37000 flat before tax. This was in the NY Metro area.

The car is ok. I was coming off a 2015 Outback Limited.

I thought the Plug In Hybrid would be an interesting experiment to understand if it's possible to live on electric alone. Well the verdict is in...if you have your own house (check), install a level 2 charger (check) and work for a company that has plug in charging spots (check) for free as it turns out....it's highly possible to live on electric (only).

That said, if you'll pardon the analogy - I feel like I'm half pregnant here...I'm committed to electric driving (especially since I pay a premium for hydro and wind at home, and the company power comes from recently installed solar panels)...but the car I drive can only take a 17 mile charge (15 actually is the max I've seen to date). I drive about 14 miles each way to work...so it almost works out - except you have to be VERY gingerly on the accelerator or the car will kick on the ICE...and you have to go not more than 64 mph on the highway (in a 65 zone) or the ICE will kick in.

Long story short, to answer the question: I'd don't regret (the likely expensive) experiment but I am ready to move on to a Tesla - Model 3. Immediately. The minute KBB places a trade in value on the 2020 Hybrid my order is going in (that's the service Tesla uses to value trade-ins).

I've had 5 Subaru's in our family starting with a 1979 Wagon (rust bucket) in college...but I can't wait for Subaru to decide to really commit to electric. Reading the article the other day that maybe they'll go electric over the next 10 years....very disappointing.

I don't really consider myself an environmentalist at all...but driving the Hybrid and sitting behind an ICE car at a light blowing all that smoke makes me realize just how inefficient and polluting an ICE car is. It's a small part, but I will do my part to at least lower (not completely eliminate...I understand) my carbon footprint.

For now I would suggest to anyone thinking about the same, my research over the last month leads me to the conclusion that Tesla is the way to go for now (e.g. the next 3-5 year buying cycle) as they've put up the infrastructure in the US with superchargers to eliminate the fear of running out of charge. Although there may be more interesting vehicles out there (like some of the Hyundai/Kia all electrics) - the ability to charge at over a thousand locations in North America provides an infrastructure to allow it all to work.

I'll miss driving a Subaru when I make the switch...hoping Subaru HQ see's the light sooner than the 2030's...maybe in the next product refresh cycle in 5 or so years.
 

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My story:

I bought the 2020 Hybrid in mid Dec. MSRP was $40,026 with Nav package, trailer hitch (for bikes), and a couple of other accessories. The deal was for $37000 flat before tax. This was in the NY Metro area.

The car is ok. I was coming off a 2015 Outback Limited.

I thought the Plug In Hybrid would be an interesting experiment to understand if it's possible to live on electric alone. Well the verdict is in...if you have your own house (check), install a level 2 charger (check) and work for a company that has plug in charging spots (check) for free as it turns out....it's highly possible to live on electric (only).

That said, if you'll pardon the analogy - I feel like I'm half pregnant here...I'm committed to electric driving (especially since I pay a premium for hydro and wind at home, and the company power comes from recently installed solar panels)...but the car I drive can only take a 17 mile charge (15 actually is the max I've seen to date). I drive about 14 miles each way to work...so it almost works out - except you have to be VERY gingerly on the accelerator or the car will kick on the ICE...and you have to go not more than 64 mph on the highway (in a 65 zone) or the ICE will kick in.

Long story short, to answer the question: I'd don't regret (the likely expensive) experiment but I am ready to move on to a Tesla - Model 3. Immediately. The minute KBB places a trade in value on the 2020 Hybrid my order is going in (that's the service Tesla uses to value trade-ins).

I've had 5 Subaru's in our family starting with a 1979 Wagon (rust bucket) in college...but I can't wait for Subaru to decide to really commit to electric. Reading the article the other day that maybe they'll go electric over the next 10 years....very disappointing.

I don't really consider myself an environmentalist at all...but driving the Hybrid and sitting behind an ICE car at a light blowing all that smoke makes me realize just how inefficient and polluting an ICE car is. It's a small part, but I will do my part to at least lower (not completely eliminate...I understand) my carbon footprint.

For now I would suggest to anyone thinking about the same, my research over the last month leads me to the conclusion that Tesla is the way to go for now (e.g. the next 3-5 year buying cycle) as they've put up the infrastructure in the US with superchargers to eliminate the fear of running out of charge. Although there may be more interesting vehicles out there (like some of the Hyundai/Kia all electrics) - the ability to charge at over a thousand locations in North America provides an infrastructure to allow it all to work.

I'll miss driving a Subaru when I make the switch...hoping Subaru HQ see's the light sooner than the 2030's...maybe in the next product refresh cycle in 5 or so years.
Lots of interesting discussion here! The PHEV wouldn't work for us, doing the math, and neither would a Tesla. We make a few trips a year up into the local mountains and there's no charging.
 

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My story:

I bought the 2020 Hybrid in mid Dec. MSRP was $40,026 with Nav package, trailer hitch (for bikes), and a couple of other accessories. The deal was for $37000 flat before tax. This was in the NY Metro area.

The car is ok. I was coming off a 2015 Outback Limited.

I thought the Plug In Hybrid would be an interesting experiment to understand if it's possible to live on electric alone. Well the verdict is in...if you have your own house (check), install a level 2 charger (check) and work for a company that has plug in charging spots (check) for free as it turns out....it's highly possible to live on electric (only).

That said, if you'll pardon the analogy - I feel like I'm half pregnant here...I'm committed to electric driving (especially since I pay a premium for hydro and wind at home, and the company power comes from recently installed solar panels)...but the car I drive can only take a 17 mile charge (15 actually is the max I've seen to date). I drive about 14 miles each way to work...so it almost works out - except you have to be VERY gingerly on the accelerator or the car will kick on the ICE...and you have to go not more than 64 mph on the highway (in a 65 zone) or the ICE will kick in.

Long story short, to answer the question: I'd don't regret (the likely expensive) experiment but I am ready to move on to a Tesla - Model 3. Immediately. The minute KBB places a trade in value on the 2020 Hybrid my order is going in (that's the service Tesla uses to value trade-ins).

I've had 5 Subaru's in our family starting with a 1979 Wagon (rust bucket) in college...but I can't wait for Subaru to decide to really commit to electric. Reading the article the other day that maybe they'll go electric over the next 10 years....very disappointing.

I don't really consider myself an environmentalist at all...but driving the Hybrid and sitting behind an ICE car at a light blowing all that smoke makes me realize just how inefficient and polluting an ICE car is. It's a small part, but I will do my part to at least lower (not completely eliminate...I understand) my carbon footprint.

For now I would suggest to anyone thinking about the same, my research over the last month leads me to the conclusion that Tesla is the way to go for now (e.g. the next 3-5 year buying cycle) as they've put up the infrastructure in the US with superchargers to eliminate the fear of running out of charge. Although there may be more interesting vehicles out there (like some of the Hyundai/Kia all electrics) - the ability to charge at over a thousand locations in North America provides an infrastructure to allow it all to work.

I'll miss driving a Subaru when I make the switch...hoping Subaru HQ see's the light sooner than the 2030's...maybe in the next product refresh cycle in 5 or so years.
NYC, I would like a Tesla Model Y but the cost difference is significantly more MSRP starting at $50,000 also Tesla no longer qualify for the $7500 fed credit.

Toyota-Subaru is working on a joint electric SUV along with many other brands coming out with EV the market will be much more competitive in the next couple of years:

 

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Discussion Starter #57
Long story short, to answer the question: I'd don't regret (the likely expensive) experiment but I am ready to move on to a Tesla - Model 3. Immediately. The minute KBB places a trade in value on the 2020 Hybrid my order is going in (that's the service Tesla uses to value trade-ins).
This is quite interesting. You may want to hang on another few months and check out the Model Y that is in production and scheduled for deliveries in the next month or two dependent upon trim. I don't know if you need the space, but it's a difference of 15 cubic feet vs. 66 cubic feet in the Model Y. For reference, that's about 8 cubic feet LESS than the Subaru Outback. As it stands now, the AWD Model Y appears to come in about $53k before incentives, but it suggests you'll save $6,000 every 5 years compared to the Outback XT in fuel costs - not counting maintenance in all of this.

I also view the PHEV & Mild Hybrids as a stop-gap approach towards a full BEV. I live in NJ near the NYC metro area, and our state laws have recently changed which make it worthwhile to hold off until the summer to pursue a Tesla... There is an existing law on the books now that there's no state sales tax for your BEV purchase, so you can also shop around to Carvana or CarMax to see if they'd write you a check for your Crosstrek Hybrid. Or, contact the dealership you bought it from and see if they'd make you a decent offer for it.

Apparently in July (ish), NJ will have a law for residents to get up to $5000 off a BEV or PHEV based off the electric range. It's also possible, but unlikely now, that if a climate-minded administration is elected next November, they could reinstate the Federal Tax Credit for BEV's that have already broken the cap (GM, Tesla)

As you suggested, if someone's able to commute and drive primarily under the EV mode of the Crosstrek, I think it'll be a capable car. But, as you also suggested, I would have liked to see the EV range closer to 30-40 miles instead of 17.

Lots of interesting discussion here! The PHEV wouldn't work for us, doing the math, and neither would a Tesla. We make a few trips a year up into the local mountains and there's no charging.
I'd be curious to test this theory out. There are Superchargers in a bunch of places. I don't know if you're willing to share the info, but you can message me and I'll reference some good route planning apps & websites and see if it can work.

Your profile suggests you're from Santa Monica, so you should have access to get up to the north part of the state using the SC system - and you can charge up before you break off the main road into the mountains... Hit the mountains with 80% and just make sure you have enough range to make it back to the SC... Check this map out:

 

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Interesting. There a are lot more now than last time I looked into it. I can see how, with some careful planning and timed stops you could make it from the LA area to, say, Yosemite, in an EV with reasonable range. It would just take longer due to the charging stops.
 

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Interesting. There a are lot more now than last time I looked into it. I can see how, with some careful planning and timed stops you could make it from the LA area to, say, Yosemite, in an EV with reasonable range. It would just take longer due to the charging stops.
That's what I love about the Crosstrek. Don't know if I would want to go full EV, but I like the range where I can just fill up at a gas station as needed.
 

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We've had ours since September. I drive about 90 miles/day to/from work, so everyday I use up all of the 17 miles and then utilize the hybrid system. The car has been getting about 46 MPGe per Trip A (I use 93 octane, fyi)

I don't have any real complaints:

1) The brakes suck, but that's because I'm used to driving a Tesla on the weekends with gobs of stopping power via regen. (My wife drives the Tesla, I wish we could afford two Teslas with my long commute)

2) I wish it was a BEV and didn't have a gas engine. The car drives better in EV mode than when the rough/under-powered ICE is in use.

I am looking forward to a future Subaru BEV.
 
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