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Discussion Starter #1
I love the label. Used to be just plain old gasoline. Now it's Pure!

I learned recently that ethanol-free gasoline had become available (again) in the Colorado Springs area. Maverick put in two new stations and they have 87 octane no-ethanol-added gas. A little pricey at $3.22 a gallon. I filled up my CrossTrek and I'll see if there will that that hoped-for leap in power and MPG. This morning on my regular route to work, where the system was reporting around 31 MPG average, it was reporting over 34 MPG average. I'm dubious as to the accuracy. But a few more runs and a few more tanks will see. It does seem there is more zoom-zoom now that the car has Pure Gas in its belly. I am hoping the greater cost of Pure Gas will be offset by better MPG and increased power.

A few years ago when I still had my '03 Impreza, there was a station close to me that was pumping ethanol-free gas. I ran a few tanks through. Engine power seem to be increased, again purely subjective. MPG did go up around 10%.

This plays in that ethanol is less energy dense/has fewer BTUs than gas.

E10. E0. Pros. Cons.
 

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Just wait it's my understanding our wonderful morons in DC are getting ready to try and pass an E15 mandate.

Have no fear, doesn't matter it'll void the warranty on a ton of cars- they know better than engineers.
 

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Real (pure) gas is readily available in the Tulsa area. I have always used it when available purely for political reasons. We shouldn't be burning food in our cars.

I can't make a comparison of ethanol vs. real gas for my CT since I use the real stuff consistently. However, I did notice differences in my 2014 Mustang GT and my 1993 Ford Ranger truck. The Mustang seemed a little peppier with E10 while the Ranger ran better on the pure stuff. The only thing I can figure out is that the GT ECU was finer tuned to the E10 while the Ranger's was tuned to the real. I'll be driving to Dallas and to Houston over the next 2-3 months and will be forced to use the E10 while in Texas. I'll see if there are any differences at those points.
 

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If your ECU can tune itself, E85 will make power.
However, I have always complained that 10% ethanol results in 10% less MPG so the ONLY beneficiary is the giant corn farm industry, period. It destroys everything else, and costs more to transport (can't be pumped across country via pipeline with the ethanol in because ethanol loves water).
 

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We have a lot of choices around here. There are a couple of 76 stations nearby that have 100 octane (marketed as "Racing Fuel"). I used it in one of my V12 Jags but the engine has to be tuned for it.

Burning food isn't any more or less morally acceptable than burning fossil fuels. Let's not go there...
 

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Who brought up morality? Unless you mean the morality of politicians propping up corn farms. Farm bills extend far beyond corn and fuel, and that wasn't my intention. I was pointing out that ethanol is harmful for vehicles.
 

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Who brought up morality? Unless you mean the morality of politicians propping up corn farms. Farm bills extend far beyond corn and fuel, and that wasn't my intention. I was pointing out that ethanol is harmful for vehicles.
YES! It destroys fuel system components and should not be allowed.

Burning food isn't any more or less morally acceptable than burning fossil fuels. Let's not go there...
OMG! Fantastic idea!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Seems the ECU was a bit confused for a while with the E0 gas in the tank. At fill-up, I reset the trip odometer. The predicted range indicator showed 500 miles to empty. It stayed there for some 50 miles, then dropped down to 470, then 430. Did a trip down the interstate to the ChiliFest in Pueblo. The range indicator went up to 540, then 560. Coming back, the ECU recalculated and the range to empty is showing 340 to empty with about two-thirds left in the tank. That's quite a difference in range.
 

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Seems the ECU was a bit confused for a while with the E0 gas in the tank. At fill-up, I reset the trip odometer. The predicted range indicator showed 500 miles to empty. It stayed there for some 50 miles, then dropped down to 470, then 430. Did a trip down the interstate to the ChiliFest in Pueblo. The range indicator went up to 540, then 560. Coming back, the ECU recalculated and the range to empty is showing 340 to empty with about two-thirds left in the tank. That's quite a difference in range.
That's actually normal with any kind of gas. If you reset the trip, it seems to reset the driving data, so it has no idea if you're going to be crawling in traffic for the next 300 miles, or on a fast-moving freeway. I've seen the range drop 100 miles or more after a fillup, after only driving a couple of blocks.
 

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The posts above indicate there is still the usual confusion about "premium" gasoline having more energy content per stated volume than "regular" gas. In fact the reality is that premium has more additives added in order to slow combustion and therefore reduce the occurrence of pre-ignition "knock". With some of a stated volume taken up by the additives the premium has less gasoline in the stated volume and therefore less bang per volume than regular plus the "bang" takes place more slowly due to the additives.

I do pump 94 octane into my Honda scooter but only as it is ethanol-free. My collector Honda Magna carb gaskets were eaten by ethanol to the tune of $1200. Modern autos are made to handle ethanol.
 

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Careful on high octane fuels. They actually burn hotter and over time damage engines not designed for it. I highly doubt that scooter is designed for it. I don’t even think that many cars are designed for it.

And heres a little read on ethanol to clear up confusion about it hurting car engines.

“All major car manufacturers warrant their vehicles made since the early 1980's to run on a 10 percent ethanol blend without any engine modification.” In other words, alcohol resistant seals and hoses.

“Although 10 percent ethanol-blended gasoline contains only 97 percent of the energy of pure gasoline, this is partially compensated for by the improved combustion efficiency of the ethanol-gasoline blend... Overall, use of low-blend increases fuel consumption by an average of 2 percent compared with pure gasoline. However, this is only a slight difference when compared with other factors that have a larger impact on fuel economy.” E.g. speeding which can use 20% more.

Then you can consider the less intensive extraction, shipping and refining processes and, it’s lower emissions.


Ref: https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/alternative-fuels/fuel-facts/ethanol/3493

I will only gloss over the food vs. burn in this forum. It’s pointless topic because it purely economics vs. collective farming practices. To bypass all the complexity, those that buy it can use it however they want.

Additionally; Ethanol production expands cattle feedlot operations. Large volumes of high protein distiller's grain are generated as a co-product of ethanol production. This goes into the food chain.

By the way, I’ve been using 10% ethanol fuel in my lawn mower, snow blower and chainsaw for years and never had an engine or fuel system problem.

Sorry; my corn flakes are a little soggy today :(
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The posts above indicate there is still the usual confusion about "premium" gasoline having more energy content per stated volume than "regular" gas. In fact the reality is that premium has more additives added in order to slow combustion and therefore reduce the occurrence of pre-ignition "knock". With some of a stated volume taken up by the additives the premium has less gasoline in the stated volume and therefore less bang per volume than regular plus the "bang" takes place more slowly due to the additives.
I don't think there is any confusion. This is about putting corn in the tank, not premium, mid-grade, or regular fuel. Corn bad. Until recently, I did not have a choice.

87 octane is the recommended fuel for the CrossTrek. Here in Colorado, we also have 85 octane fuel available because of the altitude. Won't find 85 in the lower altitude states. 87 octane is mid-grade fuel for us in the Rockies high.
 

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I ran corn free gas in my XV as an experiment a few years ago. I saw slightly better MPG but I didn't think the price difference was worth it in the long run. I try to run pure gas in my 2001 motorcycle FWIW..
 

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Ethanol has half the energy per volume as gasoline. It burns slower, much leaner(hotter) so it needs to be run richer.
 

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It takes 3 gallons of water to produce one gallon of ethanol. Setting aside the billions of dollars in subsidies to farmers, is it worth it? It's some nasty stuff!

https://gazette.com/opinion/the-water-and-corn-cost-for-a-gallon-of-ethanol/article_30d76168-f4a2-5221-bcda-f4f753e46f79.html

NO!!!!! (imho)
Not unlike us, in Canada, having to pay extra for our dairy products (what the govt calls supply mgmt) just to support our dairy farmers, all of whom are multi multi millionaires (at least all the ones I know). Problem is, once you give them the subsidy, very hard (politically) to take it away.
 

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It takes 3 gallons of water to produce one gallon of ethanol. Setting aside the billions of dollars in subsidies to farmers, is it worth it? It's some nasty stuff!

https://gazette.com/opinion/the-water-and-corn-cost-for-a-gallon-of-ethanol/article_30d76168-f4a2-5221-bcda-f4f753e46f79.html

NO!!!!! (imho)
Cool, just about the same amount to make a gallon of gasoline.

“We found that water is consumed at a rate of 2.8-6.6 liters for each liter of gasoline produced for more than 90% of crude oil obtained from conventional onshore sources in the U.S. and more than half of crude oil imported from Saudi Arabia.“ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19774326

https://greet.es.anl.gov/files/consumptive-water
 

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Careful on high octane fuels. They actually burn hotter and over time damage engines not designed for it. I highly doubt that scooter is designed for it. I don’t even think that many cars are designed for it.

And heres a little read on ethanol to clear up confusion about it hurting car engines.

“All major car manufacturers warrant their vehicles made since the early 1980's to run on a 10 percent ethanol blend without any engine modification.” In other words, alcohol resistant seals and hoses.

“Although 10 percent ethanol-blended gasoline contains only 97 percent of the energy of pure gasoline, this is partially compensated for by the improved combustion efficiency of the ethanol-gasoline blend... Overall, use of low-blend increases fuel consumption by an average of 2 percent compared with pure gasoline. However, this is only a slight difference when compared with other factors that have a larger impact on fuel economy.” E.g. speeding which can use 20% more.

Then you can consider the less intensive extraction, shipping and refining processes and, it’s lower emissions.


Ref: https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/alternative-fuels/fuel-facts/ethanol/3493

I will only gloss over the food vs. burn in this forum. It’s pointless topic because it purely economics vs. collective farming practices. To bypass all the complexity, those that buy it can use it however they want.

Additionally; Ethanol production expands cattle feedlot operations. Large volumes of high protein distiller's grain are generated as a co-product of ethanol production. This goes into the food chain.

By the way, I’ve been using 10% ethanol fuel in my lawn mower, snow blower and chainsaw for years and never had an engine or fuel system problem.

Sorry; my corn flakes are a little soggy today :(
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/time-to-rethink-corn/
 
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