[Montanan]

Here's a link to a recent article from a major, respected Japanese newspaper, stating that Subaru is halting development of all plug-in hybrid vehicles:

Subaru to halt development of plug-in hybrid vehicles

Japanese automaker accelerates shift to electric cars

asia.nikkei.com

A few outtakes from the article:

Subaru currently offers a plug-in hybrid version of the Crosstrek SUV, but starting next year, the Crosstrek will no longer be available as a plug-in hybrid.
Subaru has been selling the plug-in version of the Crosstrek for $36,845 since 2018, but sales have been sluggish, with only 2,600 units sold in the U.S. last year, less than 1% of Subaru's unit sales in the country.

Subaru will focus on the development of EVs as the company plans to invest 250 billion yen ($1.8 billion) for the development and production of EVs over the next five years. In 2027, Subaru will build an EV factory in Gunma, north of Tokyo. Subaru's current EV offerings are developed with Toyota Motor, owner of a 20% stake. Subaru, however, is likely to develop EVs on its own going forward.

For hybrids, Subaru will take advantage of its partnership with Toyota and use the Japanese auto giant's technology. It plans to release new hybrid models around 2025.

I guess that means that the Solterra will be the company's compliance car for the next year or two, and we've got a while to wait to see what Subaru has up its sleeve in terms of EVs.

 

[dpc166]

So I guess we won't see a 40+ mile plug in hybrid jointly developed with Toyota. I knew the car wouldn't be a great selling vehicle and mainly a compliance car only. I'll probably be buying an EV from another company as my next car, probably BMW or Hyundai/Kia.

 

[Montanan]

It's totally understandable that Subaru needs to focus its development work on a limited spectrum of projects ... but at the same time, I have to wonder how many units the PHEV Crosstrek would have sold if it had been produced in greater quantities and marketed in all 50 states.

The Koreans are definitely riding high in the EV world right now. The next few years are going to be interesting, for sure ...

 

[AstroKats]

Here's a link to a recent article from a major, respected Japanese newspaper, stating that Subaru is halting development of all plug-in hybrid vehicles:

Subaru to halt development of plug-in hybrid vehicles

Japanese automaker accelerates shift to electric cars

asia.nikkei.com

Noteworthy correct use of Subaru's...

 

[ddehr026]

I just got a quote of $33.5k from Carvana to sell my 2020 Hybrid with 11k miles. My net cost after tax credit was right around $31-$32k 2 years ago. The car has been great, but the lack of all electric range has been a drag. Thinking of taking it and getting a full EV depending on how the tax credit legislation shakes out this year.

 

[R P]

I just got a quote of $33.5k from Carvana to sell my 2020 Hybrid with 11k miles. My net cost after tax credit was right around $31-$32k 2 years ago. The car has been great, but the lack of all electric range has been a drag. Thinking of taking it and getting a full EV depending on how the tax credit legislation shakes out this year.

That's the issue with PHEVs, low range and not much power either. On the EV forums that I frequent, most people start off with hybrids and eventually move up to a full blown battery only BEV. I had a Prius back in the day, and followed it with the Kona BEV, and now the Solterra. And at this point in time, am ready to take the step of having two BEVs and no ICE car. That seems to be the normal progression as people gain understanding of BEVs and the benefits.

Most of the people on this forum that don't like BEVs, have never owned one, or even a PHEV, so I understand their hesitation and concerns. Although I don't like the misinformation that they like to spread.

But my recommendation at this time, if you need 2 cars in a household, go with a BEV right off the start. Keep your ICE for trips or when you may not be confident your BEV is ready for the mission at hand. But once you get used to a BEV, and enjoy all the benefits, you will not be looking back. That's the normal experience of people who now own BEVs.

 

[ddehr026]

That's the issue with PHEVs, low range and not much power either. On the EV forums that I frequent, most people start off with hybrids and eventually move up to a full blown battery only BEV. I had a Prius back in the day, and followed it with the Kona BEV, and now the Solterra. And at this point in time, am ready to take the step of having two BEVs and no ICE car. That seems to be the normal progression as people gain understanding of BEVs and the benefits.

Most of the people on this forum that don't like BEVs, have never owned one, or even a PHEV, so I understand their hesitation and concerns. Although I don't like the misinformation that they like to spread.

But my recommendation at this time, if you need 2 cars in a household, go with a BEV right off the start. Keep your ICE for trips or when you may not be confident your BEV is ready for the mission at hand. But once you get used to a BEV, and enjoy all the benefits, you will not be looking back. That's the normal experience of people who now own BEVs.

Great context and reply. I'd agree I'm right in the same mindset. Just doesn't make sense to pay the premium for the PHEV (at least in the Crosstrek's case) when you're only getting 15-20 miles of all electric.

While I'm ready to make the jump to a full EV, I am still struggling with how to arrange our family car setup. Our current car needs are 1 SUV/Van for daycare pickup/dropoffs, groceries/errands (preferably electric or at least PHEV), and 1 midsize truck (think Tacoma/Frontier). Now Toyota is coming out with their all electric Tacoma that I have my eyes on, but not scheduled for release until 2024....

 

[MA Subie]

Not surprised. I sure wouldn't pay $8K more to get only 4mpg better than the ICE version.

There were complaints about the whining sound from the electric motor as well.

As hybrids go, there are better choices.

 

[ddehr026]

Not surprised. I sure wouldn't pay $8K more to get only 4mpg better than the ICE version.

There were complaints about the whining sound from the electric motor as well.

As hybrids go, there are better choices.

I’ve averaged 82mpg over the first 10k miles. Not sure where your getting 4mpg bump info?

 

[MA Subie]

I’ve averaged 82mpg over the first 10k miles. Not sure where your getting 4mpg bump info?

I believe that figure is once the initial plug-in charge is exhausted. I suppose if you don't drive very many miles before plugging it in again, you could get good results.

 

[Raleighmclemore]

Most of our driving is less than 50 miles trips. Next car was to be BEV but recent experience with really ratty maintenance of charging network for our 400 mile trips to LA have made us shy of depending on the BEV. A PHEV looks like a good solution to our experience until we see qualitative improvement in chargers on longer routes. Ideal for us would be a 50 mile capability of a plug in. It is a logical response to a pretty massive assault on fuel prices in California. As far as California fuel prices sometimes I can't take a joke, but I can always take a hint.
I believe that BEV are a good idea but we need someone to act responsible for the charging network's maintenance.

 

[dpc166]

I believe that figure is once the initial plug-in charge is exhausted. I suppose if you don't drive very many miles before plugging it in again, you could get good results.

Exactly. If you're doing one long trip where you use the electric miles and then the entire tank of gas, combined average is 35mpg. For most real cases, you see a lot better. I have some trips over 60mi and return 80mpg and lifetime for 18,000 miles is 96mpg. Far cry from the 4mpg gain.

@R P this car does have some good power, I mean, it's faster than the standard 2.0 Crosstrek with that extra 500lbs and almost as quick as the 2.5 Crosstrek. Low range isn't terrible if you really don't have to drive all that far. When I move in the next 2-3 months, I'll have a grocery store within a mile, my curling club that same distance, and the rock gym 2.5mi away. At that rate I will probably only charge the car once a week instead of 4-5 times per week so it wouldn't make as much sense going with a car with more range and a heavier battery to lug around. As much as I would love a RAV4 Prime or S60 Recharge with 42mi EV range, I just won't need it for the time being. I initially thought 17mi of range wouldn't be all that great, but from the start my commute was just about that range round trip so I didn't need gas from the get go. Also playing with some settings, I am able to get up to 26mi of range when the weather is around 60F and don't use the HVAC.

@ddehr026 it's really not that big of a premium for the hybrid over the ICE Crosstrek (Limited trim level). If you delve into the details and build them side by side to make them apples to apples, it was like $1400 or something (I did a write-up in a post somewhere). The website isn't very friendly anymore to allow you to price out the Starlink packages. A lot of people scoff at the price difference, but don't realize the extra goodies that come standard in the hybrid that you need to pay for in the Limited, like 10 years of Starlink will run you about $1300. Even when you build it out fully loaded, you also get the heated steering wheel in the Hybrid that you can't get in the Limited (in the US) or at least not when I got my 2019. After the Fed Tax Credit of $4500, the difference is only a $1400 premium using the 2023 numbers (assumed $250 for the steering wheel and $1300 for 10 years of Starlink). Only thing to note now is that if you get the Limited, you get the 2.5L engine (2019 didn't have that). The only real negative I have about the car is the reduced cargo space and not having the retractable cargo cover.

 

[R P]

@R P this car does have some good power, I mean, it's faster than the standard 2.0 Crosstrek with that extra 500lbs and almost as quick as the 2.5 Crosstrek. Low range isn't terrible if you really don't have to drive all that far. When I move in the next 2-3 months, I'll have a grocery store within a mile, my curling club that same distance, and the rock gym 2.5mi away. At that rate I will probably only charge the car once a week instead of 4-5 times per week so it wouldn't make as much sense going with a car with more range and a heavier battery to lug around. As much as I would love a RAV4 Prime or S60 Recharge with 42mi EV range, I just won't need it for the time being. I initially thought 17mi of range wouldn't be all that great, but from the start my commute was just about that range round trip so I didn't need gas from the get go. Also playing with some settings, I am able to get up to 26mi of range when the weather is around 60F and don't use the HVAC.

When I said that was thinking more about the power while in EV mode. I agree combined is adequate. Just curious, do you have a strong regen with the Crosstrek. If you go up a mountain, and then back down, do you get a lot of your battery back?

And power is all relative to what you are used to. I consider my 2.0 Crosstrek totally adequate, and great for what I use it for, incl off-road. But will admit I got a little spoiled driving a BEV. It wasn't just that it had a lot of total power and acceleration, but that instant torque, and instant regen with the 1 pedal driving made for a very nimble car. That is what I missed the most when I sold the Kona, just the fun for driving it in the city.

Here is an old, old review of the Chevy Spark (Korean Car), has been around for a while. It was very advanced for its time with active coolant battery thermal management. Watch the vid of the reviewer when he first drove it. That is the same holy crap feeling I had when I first took the Kona for a test ride. After that I knew I had to have one.

A Used Chevy Spark EV Is The Discount Sleeper Hot Hatch You Didn't Know You Needed

With 400 lb.-ft. of torque on deck, this tiny hatch has more low-end grunt than some supercars.

www.roadandtrack.com

There are still a few of these for sale used, quite cheap. Not a lot of range, but great as a small 2nd car around the city.

 

[dpc166]

When I said that was thinking more about the power while in EV mode. I agree combined is adequate. Just curious, do you have a strong regen with the Crosstrek. If you go up a mountain, and then back down, do you get a lot of your battery back?

And power is all relative to what you are used to. I consider my 2.0 Crosstrek totally adequate, and great for what I use it for, incl off-road. But will admit I got a little spoiled driving a BEV. It wasn't just that it had a lot of total power and acceleration, but that instant torque, and instant regen with the 1 pedal driving made for a very nimble car. That is what I missed the most when I sold the Kona, just the fun for driving it in the city.

Here is an old, old review of the Chevy Spark (Korean Car), has been around for a while. It was very advanced for its time with active coolant battery thermal management. Watch the vid of the reviewer when he first drove it. That is the same holy crap feeling I had when I first took the Kona for a test ride. After that I knew I had to have one.

A Used Chevy Spark EV Is The Discount Sleeper Hot Hatch You Didn't Know You Needed

With 400 lb.-ft. of torque on deck, this tiny hatch has more low-end grunt than some supercars.

www.roadandtrack.com

There are still a few of these for sale used, quite cheap. Not a lot of range, but great as a small 2nd car around the city.

Gotcha. Yeah that instant torque sure is fun. The Crosstrek has that when it's in sport mode, but not to that extreme of a full BEV.

Depending on if/when Toyota comes out with a Tacoma EV, the wife and I will plan accordingly for likely that to be our local driving vehicle and figure out something else for road trips (depending on what charging infrastructure looks like in the next 5-6 years).

I also revived an old post I found on Doca's journal about the hybrids. It was neat to go through his calcs and compare it to my stats. The TL/DR is that my costs are 79% of his (which factored in currency) and I broke even on the hybrid a year ago.

 

[dpc166]

Not surprised. I sure wouldn't pay $8K more to get only 4mpg better than the ICE version.

There were complaints about the whining sound from the electric motor as well.

As hybrids go, there are better choices.

Glad I spent $4k less on my Hybrid than the ICE version to get better gas mileage.

 

[dpc166]

I just got a quote of $33.5k from Carvana to sell my 2020 Hybrid with 11k miles. My net cost after tax credit was right around $31-$32k 2 years ago. The car has been great, but the lack of all electric range has been a drag. Thinking of taking it and getting a full EV depending on how the tax credit legislation shakes out this year.

If you could sell for that price, go for it especially if you can get a good deal on a BEV. My 2019 with 18k miles is $30.6k through Carvana so that would knock down the price of a Kia EV6 Wind AWD by more than half, so cutting a check for the balance is easy. If it were still eligible for $7500, then it'd be real easy to write that check.

 

[ddehr026]

If you could sell for that price, go for it especially if you can get a good deal on a BEV. My 2019 with 18k miles is $30.6k through Carvana so that would knock down the price of a Kia EV6 Wind AWD by more than half, so cutting a check for the balance is easy. If it were still eligible for $7500, then it'd be real easy to write that check.

Yep I did. Reached out to givemethevin and they beat carvana’s price by another $500. They are picking up today. Already have check in hand. Super simple process. Ended up making about $2500 on the car for driving it for 2 years. Not too shabby.
Time to do some research on what EV is next! I have an order for a fisker ocean, but not sure if that’ll even be delivered in 2023 🙄…

 

[dpc166]

Yep I did. Reached out to givemethevin and they beat carvana’s price by another $500. They are picking up today. Already have check in hand. Super simple process. Ended up making about $2500 on the car for driving it for 2 years. Not too shabby.
Time to do some research on what EV is next! I have an order for a fisker ocean, but not sure if that’ll even be delivered in 2023 🙄…

That's awesome! I'm hesitant when it comes to stuff like that so I'd want that check to clear my account before I hand my car over to them. I'd be making about $3k as well since we got $4500 for the PHEV Fed tax credit. I'm even running a fuel credit because whenever I drive for work, I'm making a ton more money per mile than the fuel (gas and electric) it takes to run my car along with the lack of maintenance I've needed.

Unfortunately we're moving so we're buying a family member's house so I'm just going to hold for now. Some projects planned at the new house for my homebrew setup, buying lawn equipment (EGO electric mower baby!), buying a shed, replacing a fence, etc. My mileage will be going from about 60 mi/week to 17mi/week so the Crosstrek will come in handy with only having to charge maybe once a week. Might just run this guy into the ground. My wife has a 2017 Rav4 hybrid and I'm banking on a Tacoma EV in the next 2 years to replace her car. Then I might go to something smaller like a Prius Prime or whatnot since we still need 2 cars for some things.

 

[Bob12]

I’d love a Crosstrek with a strong hybrid like my 2019 Camry hybrid has.

As someone commented, the PHEV would like have sold in greater numbers it was available in greater volume across more regions.

One thing I don’t like about EVs and PHEVs is they drive heavy. Some are stiffly sprung to control bouncing.

 

[ezfe]

low range and not much power either

The range is enough to cover a large portion of daily commutes without over-provisioning battery capacity. Also, the PHEV Crosstrek is faster than the non-Sport Crosstrek?

---

Edit: I re-read the thread and see this has mostly been addressed, so sorry for duplicating this comment.