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Discussion Starter · #101 ·
Just ordered a bluedriver OBD2 reader/data logger. Nice as it works with an Iphone or android phone.

When I talked to my Subaru dealer today (McCurley Pasco, Wa.) the service writer pretty much dismissed and doesn't even want to see the data log provided by our fellow forum member. So I told him that when the FAA finds a problem on one plane model. They use that info for the other planes of the same model. The same applies here. Another car can possibly provide clues for mine as well as others with the same issue. He then said to bring the data log in. Such condescending idiots.

I'm also going to request a meeting with the general manager and also relay this BS attitude to SoA.
 

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Discussion Starter · #102 ·
UPDATE, It was a big fat zero at the Subaru dealer today. Took it in to drop it off for the pre-agreed purpose of them hooking up a data logger and keeping it for some time. All that happened was a tech went for a test drive with me. And of course the car decided to NOT screw up. However. The tech and I went over the Data logs provided by a forum member. He said by looking at it. He suspects that it is the Mass Air Flow sensor that is causing the issue. The tech did pull the coil pack to verify that they weren't burned from the preflash ignition power issue (they were fine) He also pulled and cleaned the MAF sensor.

He agreed that it will be super helpful if I can log the issue after I setup the Bluedriver. Under Washington state law. I have 6 more months time to request a lemon law arbitrator.

Washington state lemon law
 

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Just wanted to update just to add to overall info. Last time I posted it was after loss of power immediately after fill up. The first time it happened was less than half tank. Happened to me a third time today. Recap of the previous couple of days: no issues at all since last time about a month ago, including several fill ups, but did fill gas two days ago, drove home about two miles no problem. Took it out yesterday for about 20 min trip, thought I noticed it hesitate a little couple of times around 2500 revs, but wasn't bad or reproducible. Last night about 5 hours since I had driven the care, I was putting something in the back and noticed a sound like a fan coming from underneath back - car hadn't been turned on, no key in ignition, just sitting in driveway for 5 hours. Looked into it and figure it must be the evap self check, which apparently can run several hours after driving. Today drove to work and did some errands no noticeable problems for about 30 min of driving. Took a quick trip on highway, and when I was merging I did almost redline in third gear (~5900 rpm) which may or may not matter. When I got off the highway after about half a mile I noticed major hesitation/loss of power just like last two times it happened. Again not sure how much of this is relevant but thought I'd put it out there in case someone with more knowledge about cars notices something. Once it clears up this time I will try and reproduce the highway trip. Interestingly enough the first time it happened to me was the EXACT same spot after the exact same stretch of highway. The on ramp tends to be tough so I have to push a little harder to get up to speed. That will be my first test. I will contact SOA again and update. My mechanic said I should push for a replacement but I REALLY like this car and it seems a replacement could have the same issue.

Stay safe everyone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #104 ·
Just wanted to update just to add to overall info. Last time I posted it was after loss of power immediately after fill up. The first time it happened was less than half tank. Happened to me a third time today. Recap of the previous couple of days: no issues at all since last time about a month ago, including several fill ups, but did fill gas two days ago, drove home about two miles no problem. Took it out yesterday for about 20 min trip, thought I noticed it hesitate a little couple of times around 2500 revs, but wasn't bad or reproducible. Last night about 5 hours since I had driven the care, I was putting something in the back and noticed a sound like a fan coming from underneath back - car hadn't been turned on, no key in ignition, just sitting in driveway for 5 hours. Looked into it and figure it must be the evap self check, which apparently can run several hours after driving. Today drove to work and did some errands no noticeable problems for about 30 min of driving. Took a quick trip on highway, and when I was merging I did almost redline in third gear (~5900 rpm) which may or may not matter. When I got off the highway after about half a mile I noticed major hesitation/loss of power just like last two times it happened. Again not sure how much of this is relevant but thought I'd put it out there in case someone with more knowledge about cars notices something. Once it clears up this time I will try and reproduce the highway trip. Interestingly enough the first time it happened to me was the EXACT same spot after the exact same stretch of highway. The on ramp tends to be tough so I have to push a little harder to get up to speed. That will be my first test. I will contact SOA again and update. My mechanic said I should push for a replacement but I REALLY like this car and it seems a replacement could have the same issue.

Stay safe everyone.
I would really recommend spending the $100 or so to get a data logger that has a phone app. The next time your car messes up. You can just point to the Data log files and say. There it is. Instead of this guessing game we are all doing right now. Everytime I drive the car I have the data logger running

One thing I have noticed with my data logger is just how hot this engine runs. it is always at 210F and the oil temp is in the 220-230 range. My 38,000 lb motor home pulling a hill will only see 190F coolant and 210 oil temps.
 

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I would really recommend spending the $100 or so to get a data logger that has a phone app. The next time your car messes up. You can just point to the Data log files and say. There it is. Instead of this guessing game we are all doing right now. Everytime I drive the car I have the data logger running

One thing I have noticed with my data logger is just how hot this engine runs. it is always at 210F and the oil temp is in the 220-230 range. My 38,000 lb motor home pulling a hill will only see 190F coolant and 210 oil temps.
I am borrowing one from a friend of mine who knows more about cars and if we find anything I will post here. Thanks!
 

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UPDATE, It was a big fat zero at the Subaru dealer today. Took it in to drop it off for the pre-agreed purpose of them hooking up a data logger and keeping it for some time. All that happened was a tech went for a test drive with me. And of course the car decided to NOT screw up. However. The tech and I went over the Data logs provided by a forum member. He said by looking at it. He suspects that it is the Mass Air Flow sensor that is causing the issue. The tech did pull the coil pack to verify that they weren't burned from the preflash ignition power issue (they were fine) He also pulled and cleaned the MAF sensor.

He agreed that it will be super helpful if I can log the issue after I setup the Bluedriver. Under Washington state law. I have 6 more months time to request a lemon law arbitrator.

Washington state lemon law


Update:

Its not the Vehichle dynamics control. I had it off and it still had the issue above 80 degrees.

I was just thinking about this, it has to be ambient air temp related, and this was exactly what i thought, that its the MAF sensor heating up due to ambient air temps, and the resistance in the sensor gets wonky.
 

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Discussion Starter · #107 ·
Update:

Its not the Vehichle dynamics control. I had it off and it still had the issue above 80 degrees.

I was just thinking about this, it has to be ambient air temp related, and this was exactly what i thought, that its the MAF sensor heating up due to ambient air temps, and the resistance in the sensor gets wonky.
And those really hot engine/oil temps aren't likely to help. I'm going to change the logging to also include the intake air temp as well as the ambient temp to see how much our hot running engines raise the intake air temp.
 

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Because of the weather cooling off my car is running quite well. It HAS to be an ambient temp issue. Anyone have ideas? I’m at 33k miles and seriously want to fix this problem because I love my car. But if there’s no light at the end of the tunnel maybe I should just sell it for something else.
 

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I'm not excited to be joining this forum, but glad to find it. Bought a 2020 outback in June. It now has 8500k on it. Last week I was driving no problem on a 50km speed road and then turned up a single lane road with steep incline. Lost all power. Thank goodness no one was behind me. There was 1 house on that road on my right side and I was able to quickly pull into their driveway - only 200 feet up from the intersection. Car had no problem going into reverse and driving down the few feet that I got up the hill. Dealership has had the vehicle for 2 days and can't find any problem. I have to drive up this hill 5 times a week so feeling hesitant whether I want to drive it or not, especially if family will be in the car with me. Did anyone find anything specific as the problem?
 

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And those really hot engine/oil temps aren't likely to help. I'm going to change the logging to also include the intake air temp as well as the ambient temp to see how much our hot running engines raise the intake air temp.
Any update with this? I am glad I found this thread. I thought I was crazy. I have a 2018 MT that I have owned since it was new and is has had this exact same behavior... cutting out in warm temps from 2300-2700 rpm with the most noticeable dip at 2500. It almost feels as if the car is struggling to breathe, so something to do with the air intake makes sense. Has anyone installed a cold air intake? Not sure that would even help

Of course, it is winter, so the car is running great.
 

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Hey yall.

Quick update...zero issues since October, when temeprature has been consistently 70 degrees or lower.

Im just thrilled about the upcoming warmer season only to have a car that cant accelerate worth a damn!

Im about 100% sure youre right superPilot, its the MAF sensor.

I read another thread and the guy said the MAF readings oscillate like crazy and are all over the chart when the power loss occurs.

We need more people to contact Subaru corporate and make a stink of this issue until they send out a tsb for the MAF sensor.
 

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Hey yall.

Quick update...zero issues since October, when temeprature has been consistently 70 degrees or lower.

Im just thrilled about the upcoming warmer season only to have a car that cant accelerate worth a damn!

Im about 100% sure youre right superPilot, its the MAF sensor.

I read another thread and the guy said the MAF readings oscillate like crazy and are all over the chart when the power loss occurs.

We need more people to contact Subaru corporate and make a stink of this issue until they send out a tsb for the MAF sensor.
Is the sensor really the problem? I suspect it's simply recording what's actually happening with the MAF.

If the sensor is indeed faulty, why is it only so on models with the 6MT and not with the CVT?
 

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Is the sensor really the problem? I suspect it's simply recording what's actually happening with the MAF.

If the sensor is indeed faulty, why is it only so on models with the 6MT and not with the CVT?
It's because you haven't heard all the reports of loss of power.You have only heard reports from people with the 6MT.There has been lots of reports from CVT owners too.

The CVT provides smooth,uninterrupted power delivery,while keeping the engine revs in the power band.The CVT also has an infinite number of gear ratios to choose from so the ECU can use slightly lower gear ratios than it normally would which can mask that power loss.If the owner bought it used,he might think that the lack of power is normal because it's a CVT car and he isn't aware of how the car is supposed to perform.

The 6MT on the other hand isn't as efficient.With every upshift,the engine revs drop out of the power band,reducing the power available.This will make any loss of power more pronounced.Because the MT only has 6 gear ratios to choose from and that you will always be using the same gear for a given situation,any loss of power will be noticed immediately.
 

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Hey yall.

Quick update...zero issues since October, when temeprature has been consistently 70 degrees or lower.

Im just thrilled about the upcoming warmer season only to have a car that cant accelerate worth a damn!

Im about 100% sure youre right superPilot, its the MAF sensor.

I read another thread and the guy said the MAF readings oscillate like crazy and are all over the chart when the power loss occurs.

We need more people to contact Subaru corporate and make a stink of this issue until they send out a tsb for the MAF sensor.

When you contact Subaru corp, what are you telling them? That it is the MAF sensor acting up or are you just explaining the symptoms you are experiencing and that you suspect the MAF sensor? I am going to call them, but also, my car is out of warranty so I am just considering buying a new sensor.
 

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With so many people convinced that this is a MAF sensor causing this, I'd be shocked. I've had this condition since my car had 5000 miles on it. Watching a data log you can see it pulling massive amounts of timing, sometimes 10-12 degrees in the 2000-3500 rpm range (very temperature dependant to cause this - hotter it is, the worse it is) when this condition occurs. And yes, 87 or 91 octane gas makes no difference. There is no audible "pinging" that can be heard when this happens, so it does not act like it's pulling timing based on spark knock situations from both sensors.
What causes it? I don't know, but that's what I've found.
 

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Bump... just bought a new ‘21 6mt in January. Unfortunately I’m experiencing very noticeable hesitation/bog at 2k-2.5k rpms, much more noticeable on warmer days. I have already had a few close calls trying to merge onto the highway. Only 7k miles on it. Has anyone had this issue totally resolved yet? Planning on taking it to the dealer this weekend but it’s only going to be in the 50’s and I want to be certain I can replicate it at its worst. If I can replicate it for the dealer do I need a data logger?
 

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I would be very curious to see if Subaru did address this with the reflash. I'm in a bit of a tight spot myself, in that I would like to get the warranty reflash to address the ignition coil issue, but I don't want to go back to the stock map. I also don't really want somebody going poke around looking at my flash count if I bring it in. I'd REALLY like to know exactly how common the coil issue is and what exactly is going on, but I doubt that info will ever come out. I'll probably just assume I don't have a problem and skip the warranty flash.

If it does not clear up with the reflash, I was able to regularly and reliably replicate the bog on a long hill in a 45mph zone. 4th gear around 2600 or so put it right around the speed limit and with enough throttle to put it right in the middle of the bog. Maybe you can find a similar stretch of road to repeatably induce it and get them to ride along?

But, I'm sure somebody will be along shortly to tell us that it's all completely normal, that it's the CVT acting at a distance on our 6MT cars, or that you need to run it up to 6000rpm to climb a gentle hill, and ask again if you had the AC on.... lol

Please let us know what you find!
I'm having this issue with my 2018 6 speed, bogs down at 2k rpms and jerks/hesitates until 3k rpms. The dealership told me "that's just how the 6 speeds are" and won't look into it. It feels worse now than it did a month ago! So frustrating
 

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Hey guys and gals. I think the problem may have been amended due to a recent recall.

The recall for the coil packs (again) and the loose bracket bolt. I think the coil packs were the culprit. The first round of recalls for the coil packs i still had the high ambiente heat power loss issue.

Today was 116 degrees in PNW area, and i still had power, albeit slightly reduces due to the high heat, but nothing near what were seeing earlier.

Im hoping this is the fix, simply get the new coil packs via subaru, per the recent recall.

Special thanks to super7pilot for their work on this issue and bringing it to light.
 

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Hey guys and gals. I think the problem may have been amended due to a recent recall.

The recall for the coil packs (again) and the loose bracket bolt. I think the coil packs were the culprit. The first round of recalls for the coil packs i still had the high ambiente heat power loss issue.

Today was 116 degrees in PNW area, and i still had power, albeit slightly reduces due to the high heat, but nothing near what were seeing earlier.

Im hoping this is the fix, simply get the new coil packs via subaru, per the recent recall.

Special thanks to super7pilot for their work on this issue and bringing it to light.
Kudos to your optimism.. but why would the coil pack cause an issue specifically in the 2.5-3k rpm range?
 
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