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Discussion Starter #1
The mechanic is all over the place blaming the (1) Air conditioning computer was faulty. (2) The gas tank pressure sensor had to be replaced.(3) The gas pump sensor was faulty and needed replacing. (4) Again the check engine light came on and the mechanic still does not know what the matter is. I love this car but if this happens again I will have to pursue legal action.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
 

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2018 Orange Subaru Crosstrek Limited
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In California we have a Lemon Law. Don't know where you bought the car. Our law states:

"Lemon Law Presumption

*Within the Song-Beverly Act, there is a presumption guideline wherein it is presumed that a vehicle is a “lemon” if the following criteria are met within 18 months of delivery to the buyer or lessee or 18,000 miles on the vehicle’s odometer, whichever comes first, one or more of the following occurs:

1. The manufacturer or its agents have made two or more attempts to repair a warranty problem that results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven.
OR
2. The manufacturer or its agents have made four or more attempts to repair the same warranty problem. If required by the warranty materials or by the owner’s manual, the consumer must directly notify the manufacturer about the problem(s), preferably in writing. The notice must be sent to the address shown in the warranty or owner’s manual (for 1 and 2 above)
OR
3. The vehicle has been out of service for more than 30 days (not necessarily consecutively) while being repaired for any number of warranty problems and the problems must be covered by the warranty, substantially reduce the vehicle’s use, value, or safety to the consumer and are not caused by abuse of the vehicle.

If these criteria are met, the Lemon Law presumes that the buyer or lessee is entitled to a replacement vehicle or a refund of the purchase price."

quote is from this site:

The law is different and stronger for active duty servicefolks. Your state might have a different law about lemons.

Here's my advice from a recent problem we had with a Ford product.

Keep careful records, calls, emails, visits with dates, times and people.
Insist that the problem is defined on the work order each time as the same warranty issue ("Check Engine Light" if that is correctly stating your problem) to avoid dealer saying it is multiple issues and not an inability to fix a single warranty issue.
Notify the manufacturer in writing of the issue and the number of visits after four visits on the same issue.
Be prepared for them to bring a manufacturer "troubleshooter" to the dealer to attempt to solve the problem. The Ford "troubleshooter" kept the car for 30 days straight.
Take notes of dealer visits and mechanic's explanations. Insist that what the mechanic/representative tells you is on the dealer's documented work order. Work order should be clearly written and complete
Be patient and courteous but demand a loaner if they keep your car overnight.
Don't ever give up.

We went through this with my son in law's leased Ford Focus Electric. It took almost a year to break the lease after a series of immediate breakdowns and 3 months of free rentals. We then the announced that we would get a lawyer to force Ford to break the three year lease. At one point Ford asked for our permission to cut a 4" hole into the firewall and another into the chassis so they could access some parts. We demanded a statement that the car would still meet crash standards and they dropped the request. It was a lousy experience. I hope yours is better and Subaru tries to live up to its image of "love is a..."

Good luck!
 

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Not much to add here. I went through it with a Land Rover that was leaking coolant into the passenger area. California has pretty robust Lemon Laws.

It's also a possibility that the dealer is incompetent or has little to no experience of the PHEV. Do you have any other options? This is the first of its kind I've seen reported here and there are a lot of members with PHEVs.
 

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1. serious injury or death doesn't seem to apply - The manufacturer or its agents have made two or more attempts to repair a warranty problem that results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven.
OR
2. Doesn't seem to apply since the mechanic identified or WAG'd 3 different items - The manufacturer or its agents have made four or more attempts to repair the same warranty problem. If required by the warranty materials or by the owner’s manual, the consumer must directly notify the manufacturer about the problem(s), preferably in writing. The notice must be sent to the address shown in the warranty or owner’s manual (for 1 and 2 above)
OR
3. Probably hasn't reached the 30-day threshold yet - The vehicle has been out of service for more than 30 days (not necessarily consecutively) while being repaired for any number of warranty problems and the problems must be covered by the warranty, substantially reduce the vehicle’s use, value, or safety to the consumer and are not caused by abuse of the vehicle.
 

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1. serious injury or death doesn't seem to apply - The manufacturer or its agents have made two or more attempts to repair a warranty problem that results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven.
OR
2. Doesn't seem to apply since the mechanic identified or WAG'd 3 different items - The manufacturer or its agents have made four or more attempts to repair the same warranty problem. If required by the warranty materials or by the owner’s manual, the consumer must directly notify the manufacturer about the problem(s), preferably in writing. The notice must be sent to the address shown in the warranty or owner’s manual (for 1 and 2 above)
OR
3. Probably hasn't reached the 30-day threshold yet - The vehicle has been out of service for more than 30 days (not necessarily consecutively) while being repaired for any number of warranty problems and the problems must be covered by the warranty, substantially reduce the vehicle’s use, value, or safety to the consumer and are not caused by abuse of the vehicle.
What are you quoting? We don't know where the OP is located and Lemon Laws vary by state.
 

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2018 Orange Subaru Crosstrek Limited
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Agreed that it is up to the person with the problems to find out how protected he might be in his particular state. That's why I wrote that "Your state might have a different law about lemons."

Speaking to this gentleman's problem with his Subaru I was suggesting that if it turns out that the dealer attempts to fix the problem are scattered and missing some thread that connects all his incidents that he begin to insist on having this said when he brings the car into the dealer.
My OBD II computer often lists a number of problems when the check engine light comes on but it is usually one problem causing a cascade of messages. Found this to be true on a common and easy o2 sensor failure showing lots of engine problems. My hunch is this might be true for this Subaru owner, maybe not, but worth keeping an eye on.

When we went through this stuff with the Electric Focus, speaking here of California only, the initial description of the problem on the Work Orders varied from: "Stalled on Highway 880." Or "Wouldn't start from charging station at Adobe Hq." With other incidents described as separate problems although all had to do with the sudden death of the car while running or when trying to run it. The dealer solutions as this debacle developed all included different attempts and at first we were told that it wasn't a single "lemon" problem but a number of things.

Each work order my son in law got almost appeared to show dramatic new attempts a fixing the car. After the third stall we looked at the lemon law and began to have the dealer describe the problem more carefully. Later, when Ford hesitated to allow him to break the lease, we showed that Ford appeared to be searching for a problem that the dealer was largely unprepared to described as not all mechanics were fully trained. In time, when the Ford Corporate mechanic took over the car he called us and felt that the problem of not starting and not running was a result of the same problem. At this point we used our notes to talk to Ford Corporate and the dealer using the information that the car wasn't full of gremlins but of mainly one gremlin that they wanted to disembowel the car to prove by cutting into the structure...apparently it was not considered a maintenance possibility so there were no access panels planed.

Still the law all depends on where the car is living.
 

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It's not unusual that someone will vent here without letting us know what car they have, the year, trim level, etc. Or the state or country where they reside...
 

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It's not unusual that someone will vent here without letting us know what car they have, the year, trim level, etc. Or the state or country where they reside...
Yup, have seen this on other forums, too (non Subaru). If they don't respond or give details, can't help but be suspicious.
 

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Yep, some additional information would help, but the lack of it isn't by itself a reason to be suspicious.

As for the other points, I'd agree that four check-engine lights in six months is frustrating, but I don't think it's even close to time to start prepping for a lemon-law legal battle. From what's been described, the situation is pretty unlikely to meet the lemon law legal threshold, and it definitely doesn't correspond to the spirit of those laws, either.

That said, it's always good to be proactive about situations like this. First thing is to get your own OBD reader, and pull the codes yourself before you take it in -- that way you'll know for sure if it's the same situation repeating itself or not, and you'll be armed to respond appropriately to the service department's statements to you. (I strongly believe everyone should own an OBD reader these days, whether they're having issues or not.)

The second thing to do is to try another dealer next time, and see what happens. And of course, keep a written journal of all conversations and actions.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
In California we have a Lemon Law. Don't know where you bought the car. Our law states:

"Lemon Law Presumption

*Within the Song-Beverly Act, there is a presumption guideline wherein it is presumed that a vehicle is a “lemon” if the following criteria are met within 18 months of delivery to the buyer or lessee or 18,000 miles on the vehicle’s odometer, whichever comes first, one or more of the following occurs:

1. The manufacturer or its agents have made two or more attempts to repair a warranty problem that results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven.
OR
2. The manufacturer or its agents have made four or more attempts to repair the same warranty problem. If required by the warranty materials or by the owner’s manual, the consumer must directly notify the manufacturer about the problem(s), preferably in writing. The notice must be sent to the address shown in the warranty or owner’s manual (for 1 and 2 above)
OR
3. The vehicle has been out of service for more than 30 days (not necessarily consecutively) while being repaired for any number of warranty problems and the problems must be covered by the warranty, substantially reduce the vehicle’s use, value, or safety to the consumer and are not caused by abuse of the vehicle.

If these criteria are met, the Lemon Law presumes that the buyer or lessee is entitled to a replacement vehicle or a refund of the purchase price."

quote is from this site:

The law is different and stronger for active duty servicefolks. Your state might have a different law about lemons.

Here's my advice from a recent problem we had with a Ford product.

Keep careful records, calls, emails, visits with dates, times and people.
Insist that the problem is defined on the work order each time as the same warranty issue ("Check Engine Light" if that is correctly stating your problem) to avoid dealer saying it is multiple issues and not an inability to fix a single warranty issue.
Notify the manufacturer in writing of the issue and the number of visits after four visits on the same issue.
Be prepared for them to bring a manufacturer "troubleshooter" to the dealer to attempt to solve the problem. The Ford "troubleshooter" kept the car for 30 days straight.
Take notes of dealer visits and mechanic's explanations. Insist that what the mechanic/representative tells you is on the dealer's documented work order. Work order should be clearly written and complete
Be patient and courteous but demand a loaner if they keep your car overnight.
Don't ever give up.

We went through this with my son in law's leased Ford Focus Electric. It took almost a year to break the lease after a series of immediate breakdowns and 3 months of free rentals. We then the announced that we would get a lawyer to force Ford to break the three year lease. At one point Ford asked for our permission to cut a 4" hole into the firewall and another into the chassis so they could access some parts. We demanded a statement that the car would still meet crash standards and they dropped the request. It was a lousy experience. I hope yours is better and Subaru tries to live up to its image of "love is a..."

Good luck!
Thank you very much. this is very helpful and I fortunately have taken photographs of the "Check engine light" every time the problem appeared. I will have to force the dealer to provide paperwork as they never left me with any paperwork after every visit. And yes it is in California and I have spoken to the "Service Manager" who also gave me a very vague description of the problem and remedy,and told me he had conferred with Subaru USA. The car is in the shop at this moment and I have not had a diagnosis yet.
 

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Thank you very much. this is very helpful and I fortunately have taken photographs of the "Check engine light" every time the problem appeared. I will have to force the dealer to provide paperwork as they never left me with any paperwork after every visit. And yes it is in California and I have spoken to the "Service Manager" who also gave me a very vague description of the problem and remedy,and told me he had conferred with Subaru USA. The car is in the shop at this moment and I have not had a diagnosis yet.
My experience with Land Rover was that the dealer didn't much care about the number of service attempts. Presumably, they make more money the more times they try to fix a problem. It got sorted when Land Rover got involved and they bought it back. I didn't have to go to court.
 

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The others on this site have far more experience with Subaru than I do. Keep an eye out for their helpful suggestions. I agree with Montanan when he says that you probably don't have problems that will satisfy Lemon Law conditions in California, but four problems in six months is an eye opener and you should be recording it carefully. If the problem appears to be related to a single thing then you need to document and get in touch with Subaru Corporate and consider Lemon Law. Truthfully I don't think it hurts to call your problems to Corporate attention even if the problems don't strictly apply to the Lemon Law. In any case it is frustrating and I wish you luck. Again you can generally rely on folks on this forum to be incredibly helpful and informative as you work through this. I wouldn't spring for a lawyer at this stage.
 

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I get a Subaru survey request every time the car is in for any reason. Not sure if that just goes to the dealer, or to Subaru Canada. That would be a good way to let them know about your experience.

I don't go in very often, but have to say, can't remember a bad experience (many good ones) at our local dealers. My son has an old Forester, and he has gone in more often than me, but have not heard him complain about anything.
 

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I like our local dealership (the service department, not so much the sales department). However, there have been times that they have been unable to fix an issue and presented it as if it's not their problem (perhaps because they couldn't invoice Subaru for the time). A good example is the weather alert problem that we still don't have resolved and that is increasingly appearing to be an issue with the 3.0 gen HUs in the '18s.
 

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I like our local dealership (the service department, not so much the sales department). However, there have been times that they have been unable to fix an issue and presented it as if it's not their problem (perhaps because they couldn't invoice Subaru for the time). A good example is the weather alert problem that we still don't have resolved and that is increasingly appearing to be an issue with the 3.0 gen HUs in the '18s.
Yeah, that's an interesting one. Have heard about it many times with US customers. Not sure if it also happens in Canada, but I have not seen it myself. I assume it is an SXM thing.

The only thing I didn't like recently is not performing any of the recalls, before they were officially announced in Canada. Seems like the dealers down there didn't wait for that.

My local service centre is esp good, and I have often times in the past gone in and just chatted about stuff, TSBs, etc. They were pretty open with describing real issues, and also advising against some service if it wasn't needed. A good example of this was the old 2.5 engine head gasket issue. Some unscrupulous dealers were recommending replacement, with just a few drops of oil leaking,which was actually coming from the top valve cover gasket (near the spark plugs) not the HG. I had that in my old Impreza, and just lived with it (put a piece of cardboard in my garage so not to stain the floor). Went to 360+K kms and never had to replace the HG.

That Impreza was actually one heck of a great car. Even at the very end, still drove perfectly true, suspension still good, and engine still used the same amount of oil ever since it was new (1 litre between oil changes). Older Subaru's always used a little oil, and surprised that my Crosstrek seems to use none (still at Full level at 10K km oil change), even though it had 0W-20 from the factory.
 

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We were new to Subaru (not so much now, LOL) and they would tell me not to worry about anything. That changed when I was able to quote TSB numbers, LOL!

Out of the five or so service advisors I've encountered so far, there's still one that has a superior attitude. I cringe but don't get involved when I'm waiting for our car and overhear him spewing some BS to an unsuspecting customer...
 

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We were new to Subaru (not so much now, LOL) and they would tell me not to worry about anything. That changed when I was able to quote TSB numbers, LOL!

Out of the five or so service advisors I've encountered so far, there's still one that has a superior attitude. I cringe but don't get involved when I'm waiting for our car and overhear him spewing some BS to an unsuspecting customer...
Exact opposite for me. Three young women, much imbued with Subaru, sold me the car with great enthusiasm and some healthy dose of honesty. One of them getting to the point of suggesting I try another car maker's model (Have you tried the Honda to see if it has more comfortable seats yet?" before I purchased my Crosstrek. That was a surprise, kind of like the soldier in the opposing foxhole to suggest you "aim a little lower."

My experience with the Service Dept led me to this forum so I could tap the knowledge base here to start immediately changing my own oil an rotating my own tires. All pretty easy, even without a Fumoto Valve. Service Department at my Subaru dealer needed a little work...just saying.

I just can't wait to get my greasy hands on that new 0W-16 viscositiy oil with the "SP" classification oil which comes out this year. As I understand it this oil will solve gunk build up with GDI engines, improve my mileage, increase my power and reduce hair loss in owners. Let me at it;)
 

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I just can't wait to get my greasy hands on that new 0W-16 viscositiy oil with the "SP" classification oil which comes out this year. As I understand it this oil will solve gunk build up with GDI engines, improve my mileage, increase my power and reduce hair loss in owners. Let me at it;)
At the risk of a hijack, why? I'm thinking of going the other direction, with 5W-30...

@gadgetroy, did you get your car back yet?
 
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