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Great info above. And yes the 13-17 gen Treks approach angles are poor (really poor). The breakover and departure angle really are not that bad, For example on stock vehicles:
1. Your Crosstrek (and mine) - AA-18, BO - 28, DA - 21
2. New gen Crosstrek - AA - 18, BO - 29, DA - 20
3. Last gen Forester - AA -23, BO - 25, DA - 21

Now compared to, say, a Jeep Renegade - AA - 30.5, BO - 34, DA - 26

IMO - the approach angle and lack of a low range really hurt the Crosstrek's. Adding a inch lift will give you maybe a a couple more points of approach. Also remember Svendough if you do lift the Trek an inch your rear wheels move forward almost the same (if no subframe spacer) and any rear larger tires (your size?) no longer set in the small wheel wells of our gen.

I went thru what you're looking at. In the end - modified the primitive skid, went with 225/60/17 TerrainContacts and probably will be adding the heavier duty Rallitek springs now that I have over 70K on my 16. When I really want to to do more - then it's my tough as nails Jeep TJ (04 Wrangler). I can get to 75% of the places the Jeep takes me with the Trek - that's enough, plus in a lot more comfort and it's a whole lot better in the snow.
 

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2017 Desert Khaki | Sparco Terra's | Yokohama G015's | Sports Mesh Grill
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Discussion Starter #22
Not trying to be a smart*** but IMO Zap is right (albeit slightly presumptuous) if you need to ask whether or not a lift will benefit you, you would probably just be better off putting that money toward something else for the car or holding on to it until it is clear that you need a lift.
Good reply. I'm new to modding cars, that's really it. Heck I was living in NYC for 10 years with no car before purchasing this one.

I don't think it's a bad thing to ask, as I'm sure many other folks have (or do) wonder the same thing.

Of course, as you said, this is all communicated over the internet and nobody here will know my driving style or the terrain I'm willing to put my car over. So while I understand the sentiment that "needing" to ask may mean that I "shouldn't" get a lift, I agree with you that it is rather presumptuous and doesn't add to the conversation.

I've learned a lot just from asking. For one, lifting a car can help you clear larger tires and helps offset the clearance you may loose from adding skid plates. Second, lifting this car won't improve approach or departure angles, very much at all. And those angles are what really limits this car. I wasn't aware of some of these insights, which is why I'm here and why I put this out there.

So yeah, long story short. I'll probably never lift this car simply because of the approach angle limitations and lack of suspension articulation. This is my daily driver and I personally would rather put my money elsewhere. But hey, I learned some new things about lifts…so there's that.
 

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Good reply. I'm new to modding cars, that's really it. Heck I was living in NYC for 10 years with no car before purchasing this one.

I don't think it's a bad thing to ask, as I'm sure many other folks have (or do) wonder the same thing.

Of course, as you said, this is all communicated over the internet and nobody here will know my driving style or the terrain I'm willing to put my car over. So while I understand the sentiment that "needing" to ask may mean that I "shouldn't" get a lift, I agree with you that it is rather presumptuous and doesn't add to the conversation.

I've learned a lot just from asking. For one, lifting a car can help you clear larger tires and helps offset the clearance you may loose from adding skid plates. Second, lifting this car won't improve approach or departure angles, very much at all. And those angles are what really limits this car. I wasn't aware of some of these insights, which is why I'm here and why I put this out there.

So yeah, long story short. I'll probably never lift this car simply because of the approach angle limitations and lack of suspension articulation. This is my daily driver and I personally would rather put my money elsewhere. But hey, I learned some new things about lifts…so there's that.
I know where you're coming from. When I first bought my trek I was hellbent on lifting immediately because in my mind that was the end all be of "off-road" mods, but I got a good buddy who wheels the heck out of a bone stock first gen Foz who advised me to put the brakes on until I actually get out and really put it through its paces. I am glad I did. IMO its a lot of fun to mod a car "as needed" rather than "as wanted". I feel like my vehicle is really growing around me every time I add something that I have put time and effort/research into.

But hurry up and get those skid plates!! 😂😂

Cheers,
Dan
 

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And how does it not help with larger tires?

Look at where the larger tires rub and truly tell me you think that adding one inch will make those tires stop rubbing. Until you can get the center of your wheel below the bottom of the car, nothing will change. You'll still need to trim to keep rubbing from happening. I'm not new to lifting Subarus and putting bigger tires on them. Some 18 or so lifted Subarus later, I have a good idea what 1 inch of lift will NOT do for your car.

The Brat below got a 4 inch lift and still I had to bash and beat and trim to make them rub way less.

00016w.jpg
 

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Same thing with this Impreza. 3 inches of lift, nothing different about the way the tires rubbed or not (actually made it worse in the rear because they get closer to the back doors.)
24300909_2185998158092403_7853463170553214100_n.jpg


I'm telling you from experience, not trying to seem like I'm yelling and screaming. ;)

Me on the right in 1998.
todd1.jpg
 

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Same thing with this Impreza. 3 inches of lift, nothing different about the way the tires rubbed or not (actually made it worse in the rear because they get closer to the back doors.) View attachment 298297

I'm telling you from experience, not trying to seem like I'm yelling and screaming. ;)

Me on the right in 1998. View attachment 298298
Love the retro pics!

Not wishing to ruffle any feathers here (more than I do already, LOL) I'm really curious what the actual benefits of a lift are, on a car that already has impressive ground clearance. As I wrote earlier, can you really improve the overall clearance with a lift without altering the drive train and suspension geometry, and possibly have CV issues later?

RP has a good point, that wheels and tires with a greater overall diameter add clearance.
 

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I'm a stubborn person. My human nature makes me want the best of the best. In my mind, I'll never be satisfied until I have a lifted vehicle. Also, in my ignorant state of mind, the cost alone of most quality lift kits make me feel like paying all that money for 1" just isn't worth it, gotta be at least 2". Until someone can convince me otherwise that lifting truly is just a money pit/bad idea that will be my goal lol Of course, in a perfect world I plan on upgrading axel shafts, springs, and wheel hubs to compensate and do what I think is the right way to do things.
 

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Love the retro pics!
RP has a good point, that wheels and tires with a greater overall diameter add clearance.
Thanks.
Ok, that wasn't the point of this thread, but I'll bite. These cars come with 27 inch tires. If you put on a 28 inch tire, you gain 1/2 inch of clearance. Suppose you put on a 29 inch tire, it will gain you 1 inch of clearance. You can bet all your money that a 1 inch lift kit will NOT clear those 29s any better than stock height.

But the amount of power you lose by putting on those 29s is pretty noticeable.
Below shows the differences. (From tirerack, using the KO2 as an example)
215/75/15 is pretty dang close to the stock 225/60/17 or 225/55/18. Look at the revolutions per mile.
Also look at the weight of the tires. The stock tire is about 28 lbs.

Screen Shot 2019-12-04 at 7.51.42 AM.png



Here is a vid of my car. A 1 inch lift might barely help me not scrape on the rocks, but XMODE will crap out if you try to crawl up a big hill.
Crosstrek on the rocks.
 

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Here is a vid of my car. A 1 inch lift might barely help me not scrape on the rocks, but XMODE will crap out if you try to crawl up a big hill.
Crosstrek on the rocks.
There is a trade-off with traction and power when using X-mode. I found that on really steep approaches when it loses traction on some loose gravel/shale it will cut power to prevent spinning. But you then can turn off TCS with the push of a button (and still keep X-mode on), and play with the power and momentum to get over those spots. For most situations, I did not have to do that, and X-mode (and TCS) helped to utilize whichever wheels had the best traction to keep moving. X-mode actually gives more torque to the wheels (as long as you have traction) in that it allows the engine to rev higher at crawling speeds (almost like a low range).

This was in contrast to many of the 4WD trucks I had to follow that had to use momentum and power (with rocks and gravel flying) to get through the tough spots. It was great entertainment. The only other vehicles that did as good or better than my Crosstrek were the Wrangler Jeeps, 4Runners and Tacomas, mostly because of their better clearance and approach angles.

This was on my Mt Cheam excursion in Sept. Took 2 hours just to go 11 kms, while following a column of trucks. Learned a lot with that experience, and gave me a lot more confidence with my Crosstrek off-road capabilities. My cabin road is like a highway compared to that road.
 

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Trust me, back in the day, the only way to get an under powered Subaru up a steep off camber hill was to punch it and wait. Open diffs sucked. Then we started welding the rear diffs up and got more traction. Then we started blowing up rear axles and diffs.
This is my 5th Crosstrek. I've owned it 2 years now, I've had plenty of chances to see if the XMODE is worth a crap or not. With all four wheels planted level, it will kick *** in the snow.

But I haven't done one thing in my Crosstrek yet that I can't do in 2WD in my Jeep.
 

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Trust me, back in the day, the only way to get an under powered Subaru up a steep off camber hill was to punch it and wait. Open diffs sucked. Then we started welding the rear diffs up and got more traction. Then we started blowing up rear axles and diffs.
This is my 5th Crosstrek. I've owned it 2 years now, I've had plenty of chances to see if the XMODE is worth a crap or not. With all four wheels planted level, it will kick *** in the snow.
But I haven't done one thing in my Crosstrek yet that I can't do in 2WD in my Jeep.
No argument about the Jeep, totally different machine. Best for extreme off-road and rock crawling, but terrible at everything else. On our cabin road, it (our friends have a Wrangler) feels like you are driving on railroad tracks, with everything rattling and bouncing over the bumps, holes and washboard, while the Crosstrek just glides over the same terrain with ease. Only need to slow down for the big bumps or holes to prevent bottoming out. But still can beat the Jeep by 15 min with ease over the same distance (16 kms).

Don't know how you have used X-mode, but found it very useful on the Mt. Cheam run, esp going through the washouts at an angle.
 

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You might have made it without XMODE. ;) I've been though at least one where the front end completely plowed into the other bank. XMODE pushed through it with a couple of tries, but it pushed my fender out near the door. (it pushed back in.)
IMG_9827.jpeg




And. The Jeep is something that my Subaru can never be. Convertible. And you'd be surprised at my suspension, very soft. With the tires aired down, rough roads aren't so bad. When I'm in my Xtrek, I have to be careful about speeds and pot holes, I've heard that BAM from the rear too many times. I can charge them with my Jeep. I clench my gut and say "umph!" and laugh. Over the years, I've been out with tons of Subarus wheeling, I go along and tug them when they are stuck. I've chased Subarus down several gravel roads and none have got away. I think 10 years of Rally X and 20 years wheeling has gained me a few skills. ;)
 

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You might have made it without XMODE. ;) I've been though at least one where the front end completely plowed into the other bank. XMODE pushed through it with a couple of tries, but it pushed my fender out near the door. (it pushed back in.)

And. The Jeep is something that my Subaru can never be. Convertible. And you'd be surprised at my suspension, very soft. With the tires aired down, rough roads aren't so bad. When I'm in my Xtrek, I have to be careful about speeds and pot holes, I've heard that BAM from the rear too many times. I can charge them with my Jeep. I clench my gut and say "umph!" and laugh. Over the years, I've been out with tons of Subarus wheeling, I go along and tug them when they are stuck. I've chased Subarus down several gravel roads and none have got away. I think 10 years of Rally X and 20 years wheeling has gained me a few skills. ;)
Yes, I had X-mode on the whole time on the Mt. Cheam road, and most of it, am sure didn't need it. But sure seemed to work well in a few spots. And yes, as discussed before, biggest limitation is approach angle with front bumper.

As for my cabin road, I think Subaru's permanent AWD makes a huge diff. Both the Jeep and my previous Chevy truck liked to roll/slide around the corners esp with washboard, both going up and down hills, and had to be really careful (with huge cliffs on lake side). Was a recent double fatality just a few kms from my place on that same road this fall. My Subaru would just hug the road, but other vehicles can easily be caught going too fast.
Our turn off is at km 11.
 

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Oh I get it. Proper tires help even more. Gravel roads are still roads, just off pavement. And I admit that I never hit 70 on gravel roads with my Jeep like I have several times in my Crosstrek.

Off road means trails, not usually accessible by cars. But we're getting way off topic. Sorry OP.
 

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RP, here's what I consider Subaru off roading. :) View attachment 298314 View attachment 298315
The Brat.. Every adventurous Subaru enthusiasts wet dream.

Pretty far off topic at this point but I think the OP accomplished what they were looking for so whats the harm. That being said, I would follow the heck out of a thread dedicated to your Brat pictures/experiences... just sayin
 

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Haha, yep, would draw the line there with my Crosstrek... For me, it is more about the destination, not just the challenge, although enjoy the latter, too, as long as it is doable.

BTW, I am just north of you across the border. There are some interesting/challenging places up here you might want to try some day. Our cabin is on the east side of Harrison Lake, and some interesting roads there. I have explored that side in depth on dirt bikes in the past, incl remote hot springs, alpine lakes, etc. But lots of interesting spots on the west road, too, all the way up to Pemberton (more hot springs, etc). I want to do that next year with the Crosstrek. And want to do Mt. Cheam again.
 
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