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· Electrified!
2019 Crosstrek Plug-in Hybrid
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1,275 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
@AstroKats
You're right there's really no info out there on the Crosstrek Hybrid specifically. There's info on Beyond Tailpipe Emissions that looks at greenhouse gas emissions for the car and upstream (meaning electric and gas production emissions).

For my area specifically, total GHG emissions is 240g CO2/mi and the tailpipe emissions alone is 151 g CO2/mi. So upstream GHG is 89 g CO2/mi. Average gasoline car in my area (again they don't compare against ICE Crosstrek) is 410 g CO2/mi.
  • 151g CO2/mi is what they say is listed on the window sticker for my car (I could go confirm this later)
  • They say the average gas vehicle data comes from a car with a fuel economy of 27 mpg. They then add a factor of 1.25 to account for emissions from the production and transportation of gasoline.
  • For a 2019 ICE Crosstrek, I found on the same website that the 6-speed produces 353 g CO2/mi and the CVT produces 301 g CO2/mi (tailpipe emissions). If I take the factor to account for production/transportation of gasoline, these become 441 and 376 g CO2/mi, respectively.
So this at least gives you of CO2 savings per mile between the Hybrid and ICE Crosstrek (201 and 136 g CO2/mi savings). I haven't be able to locate documentation on the GHG impact of building either of these cars. Since the battery itself is 8.8 kWh, that would be the biggest contributor and probably the 2 electric motors as well. I found some information about the Prius Prime so I could use info about that. The values below in metric tonnes were pulled from Engineering Explained.

2020 Subaru Crosstrek2020 Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid
Emissions per mi (g)400240
Emissions vehicle (metric tonnes)1010
Emissions battery (metric tonnes)01.034
Production Emissions (metric tonnes)1011.034

Charting this out over the first 10,000 miles, the 2 lines cross at about 1,100 miles driven. This shows that even though the Hybrid requires additional GHG to produce the vehicle, it provides a savings in GHG emissions after minimal miles.
Rectangle Slope Font Plot Parallel

Here's the data that went into the table:
Font Number Screenshot


I hope this information helps answer what you're looking for.
 

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· Resident topic drifter
'18 and '19 Crosstrek Limiteds
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17,795 Posts
That's really interesting, thank you! Food for thought.

Since I just bought a gas guzzler, I probably shouldn't be throwing stones. However, I drive so few miles a year that I'm pretty sure I'm under the emissions level of the average pious Prius owner.
 

· Electrified!
2019 Crosstrek Plug-in Hybrid
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1,275 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's really interesting, thank you! Food for thought.

Since I just bought a gas guzzler, I probably shouldn't be throwing stones. However, I drive so few miles a year that I'm pretty sure I'm under the emissions level of the average pious Prius owner.
Yeah, no problem. It was fun doing the research and pulling together a graph of the data. I think even if you drive so few miles per year, sure you're not using as much if that Prius owner does 10k miles, but if your driving is more city, then it might be a wash.

Either way, I enjoyed pulling this together to hopefully show everyone that the hybrid isn't too bad.
 

· Resident topic drifter
'18 and '19 Crosstrek Limiteds
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17,795 Posts
Thanks again. The Prius probably does well in tests. My sis-in-law is on her third.

I drove just over 1,500 miles last year so probably another outlier. I work from home and live where I can walk to shops, restaurants, etc.
 

· Administrator
2021 Crosstrek Limited, Pure Red
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5,845 Posts
Yep, interesting stuff ... thanks.

The concern I have about numbers like that is that they're going to vary wildly when looking at individual use cases, depending on how often a particular vehicle uses its gas engine. A hybrid that's used mostly for commuting may have only minimal tailpipe emissions over its lifespan, while one that gets a lot of roadtrip use will have a much harder time amortizing the environmental cost of its manufacture. Does Subaru (or anyone else) really have the quantitative statistics to know what percentage of a hybrid's real-world operating life is battery only? I'm skeptical that they do.

And of course the environmental cost of electric production varies wildly, too, depending on where you happen to be driving, so someone looking to evaluate their personal environmental impact would have to figure that into account.
 

· Registered
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949 Posts
Thanks for posting. My family member who drives a MY18, does such low annual mileage, it probably alters averages. Having said that, just got back from an errand on a trek bike and Burley trailer.
 

· Resident topic drifter
'18 and '19 Crosstrek Limiteds
Joined
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17,795 Posts
Yep, interesting stuff ... thanks.

The concern I have about numbers like that is that they're going to vary wildly when looking at individual use cases, depending on how often a particular vehicle uses its gas engine. A hybrid that's used mostly for commuting may have only minimal tailpipe emissions over its lifespan, while one that gets a lot of roadtrip use will have a much harder time amortizing the environmental cost of its manufacture. Does Subaru (or anyone else) really have the quantitative statistics to know what percentage of a hybrid's real-world operating life is battery only? I'm skeptical that they do.

And of course the environmental cost of electric production varies wildly, too, depending on where you happen to be driving, so someone looking to evaluate their personal environmental impact would have to figure that into account.
I've not seen anything that really deep dives into the production of the batteries or their lifespan...
 

· Resident Curmudgeon
2020 Crosstrek Limited
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1,569 Posts
  • They say the average gas vehicle data comes from a car with a fuel economy of 27 mpg. They then add a factor of 1.25 to account for emissions from the production and transportation of gasoline.
I hope this information helps answer what you're looking for.
After adding in this 'guestimate' for the inefficiencies of producing and transporting gasoline- they conveniently overlook the 'problems' of obtaining Lithium.
Yes, let's add in 25% for the guestimate on gasoline, because Lithium is so easy to get out of the ground and to process into a usable state for batteries, that that environmental impact shouldn't be considered; and its transportation costs are free too.
 

· Registered
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31 Posts
I would say it cleans up your local carbon footprint and fails to measure in any way the global impact. Moving the emissions from one pace to another isn't truly reducing emissions. While I cannot say for a fact whether or not it reduces or increases total emissions, I can say that they conveniently fail to even try to address it in any meaningful way other than gaslighting those that dare to even ask.
 

· Electrified!
2019 Crosstrek Plug-in Hybrid
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1,275 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yep, interesting stuff ... thanks.

The concern I have about numbers like that is that they're going to vary wildly when looking at individual use cases, depending on how often a particular vehicle uses its gas engine. A hybrid that's used mostly for commuting may have only minimal tailpipe emissions over its lifespan, while one that gets a lot of roadtrip use will have a much harder time amortizing the environmental cost of its manufacture. Does Subaru (or anyone else) really have the quantitative statistics to know what percentage of a hybrid's real-world operating life is battery only? I'm skeptical that they do.

And of course the environmental cost of electric production varies wildly, too, depending on where you happen to be driving, so someone looking to evaluate their personal environmental impact would have to figure that into account.
Yes, varies widely could happen, but then again you're not using your vehicle so are you really saving or are you just wasting money down the drain for something you're not driving?

The point is that if a hybrid is driven on longer road trips, it's still producing less emissions than the ICE version of the Crosstrek doing the same thing. It is also better for emissions in less mileage than the standard Crosstrek as illustrated above so it makes more environmental sense (note that the whole lithium mining issue is not captured in any of this).

Subaru should be able to get the real-world operating data through Starlink or something since I get monthly vehicle health updates, but they probably don't care that much to spend the money on it.

Electric production does vary, but if you look into the details of that site by the EPA, they use your zip code to determine which of the 26 regions for power plant emissions, use 5 regional grid loss factors as well as a regional factor for emissions due to coal mining and transporting it to the power plant.
 

· Electrified!
2019 Crosstrek Plug-in Hybrid
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1,275 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
After adding in this 'guestimate' for the inefficiencies of producing and transporting gasoline- they conveniently overlook the 'problems' of obtaining Lithium.
Yes, let's add in 25% for the guestimate on gasoline, because Lithium is so easy to get out of the ground and to process into a usable state for batteries, that that environmental impact shouldn't be considered; and its transportation costs are free too.
They are not overlooking the 'problems' of obtaining lithium. These calculations are for operating emissions, not vehicle construction. The emissions associated with lithium for this battery is contained in the battery production value of 1.034 metric tonnes of CO2 emissions.
 

· Electrified!
2019 Crosstrek Plug-in Hybrid
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1,275 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I would say it cleans up your local carbon footprint and fails to measure in any way the global impact. Moving the emissions from one pace to another isn't truly reducing emissions. While I cannot say for a fact whether or not it reduces or increases total emissions, I can say that they conveniently fail to even try to address it in any meaningful way other than gaslighting those that dare to even ask.
Moving the emissions from one place to another is reducing emissions. Do you not see on this graph how even though there are greater emissions when the vehicle is produced, the more you drive said vehicle after 1,000 miles reduces the total emissions compared to an ICE Crosstrek? It's even greater if you're driving the vehicle more in electric than you would if the engine runs (which is the situation in my case) because you negate the cost of petroleum production and transportation. My combined emissions are 240g per mile and this is based on 35 mpg. My lifetime average is 95 mpg so I'm looking at much less.
 

· Resident topic drifter
'18 and '19 Crosstrek Limiteds
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17,795 Posts
They are not overlooking the 'problems' of obtaining lithium. These calculations are for operating emissions, not vehicle construction. The emissions associated with lithium for this battery is contained in the battery production value of 1.034 metric tonnes of CO2 emissions.
Exactly! Lithium extraction is becoming as big of an environmental catastrophe as oil extraction or coal mining.
 
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