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Toyota has recently just created a CVT with a launch gear (or I just heard about it). Essentially the 1st gear is automatic then the rest is a CVT. It has apparently increased both performance and fuel efficiency when compared to a traditional CVT. Personally I would love to see this in the Crosstrek, even more so than the 2.5 liter they area adding in 2021. I would strongly consider trading my current Crosstrek in; especially for one with the "launch gear" CVT and a 2.5 liter engine. I don't ever see Subaru putting in a traditional Automatic in but this seems like a great option that I for Subaru. What do you guys think the chances of this actually happening are?

 

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I'm sure we'll be seeing more collaboration and sharing of components now that Toyota has increased its stake in Subaru. I've read about that transmission elsewhere and it does seem like the best of both worlds. It still won't please the MT folks, though... 馃樃

Edit: I meant it DOES seem like the best of both worlds, although we're both very happy with how our Crosstrek launches. The Pedal Commander helps.
 

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The 2020 Toyota Corolla SE has a traditional fixed first gear coupled with a CVT.
Interesting mixed technology.
I think that my 2020 CT launches from a stop plenty quickly enough.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The 2020 Toyota Corolla SE has a traditional fixed first gear coupled with a CVT.
Interesting mixed technology.
I think that my 2020 CT launches from a stop plenty quickly enough.
I'm more worried about the use when "off roading" CVT's are notorious for overheating when going up steep hills and thus cutting the power to the Wheels. A fixed first gear would help with that weakness. I agree that the crosstrek accelerates quickly for the first few seconds when you step on the gas. Almost to quickly as it will jerk you forward when you're trying to do a casual start. I think that is because it reaches it's peak power in the power-band early.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm sure we'll be seeing more collaboration and sharing of components now that Toyota has increased its stake in Subaru. I've read about transmission elsewhere and it doesn't seem like the best of both worlds. It still won't please the MT folks, though... 馃樃
I was hoping for a best of both worlds situation. After having manuals for over a decade I miss them but I wanted the Eyesight. As long as they still make manuals the "manualist" should still be happy.
 

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I was hoping for a best of both worlds situation. After having manuals for over a decade I miss them but I wanted the Eyesight. As long as they still make manuals the "manualist" should still be happy.
I just edited my post... 馃樃

I was a die hard MT fan until about 20 years ago. Even found a rare Jaguar XJS with MT. That was a fun car to drive. Even took it on a track a few times.
 

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I just edited my post... 馃樃

I was a die hard MT fan until about 20 years ago. Even found a rare Jaguar XJS with MT. That was a fun car to drive. Even took it on a track a few times.
Yea, and this type of Transmission still won't be anywhere near as fun as a manual. I feel it's a realistic fix to one of the Crosstrek's biggest weakness when it comes to "Off Road"; outside of the approach angle :LOL::LOL:. With that being said I love my Crosstrek and it has far surpassed my expectations of what it can do Off Road. I have had no CVT issues at all. The front bumper is a bit scratched up though.
 

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I did enough research & test drives before hand to understand what should and should not be expected from a CVT. Very happy with it so far. The new trans is interesting but I think I'll run my 17 Trek until the wheels fall off. Hopefully by then Toyota/Subaru will have worked the bugs out of the direct shift CVT.
 

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That's a 2-year old article. These CVTs are already on the road if you want to watch online reviews for performance and reliability just search youtube for Toyota Corolla CVT.

Spoiler is that they offer improved performance with less rubber-bandy feel and very snappy artificial downshifts used in manumatic/simulated mode (most arguing its the best feeling CVT yet) but on the flip side have had very poor reliability with many customers already having problems after only one or two years. Their manual by contrast has been perfectly reliable and is generally preferred by reviewers, and is unique in that it is more or less an "assisted manual" which helps to keep you from stalling and rev matches between shifts for you making it an easy-mode manual for novices.

(skip to 20 mins if it doesn't to it automatically)
 

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I did enough research & test drives before hand to understand what should and should not be expected from a CVT. Very happy with it so far. The new trans is interesting but I think I'll run my 17 Trek until the wheels fall off. Hopefully by then Toyota/Subaru will have worked the bugs out of the direct shift CVT.
Yep, we have no complaints about the performance. Also, Subaru's CVT has a chain rather than a belt, giving it more of a conventional gearbox feel. Pity about the fake gears, though.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
That's a 2-year old article. These CVTs are already on the road if you want to watch online reviews for performance and reliability just search youtube for Toyota Corolla CVT.

Spoiler is that they offer improved performance with less rubber-bandy feel and very snappy artificial downshifts used in manumatic/simulated mode (most arguing its the best feeling CVT yet) but on the flip side have had very poor reliability with many customers already having problems after only one or two years. Their manual by contrast has been perfectly reliable and is generally preferred by reviewers, and is unique in that it is more or less an "assisted manual" which helps to keep you from stalling and rev matches between shifts for you making it an easy-mode manual for novices.

(skip to 20 mins if it doesn't to it automatically)
Yea, the manual is definitely the best performing. I'm hopeful/optimistic that these "new" CVT's they will be able to resolve their reliability issues down the road. That way we can get the best of both worlds.
 

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Pity about the fake gears, though.
Its necessary. If you were in the max acceleration demand the engine would be forced at running at just under redline for quite a length of time. I don't think engines would hold up in this case. If you decided to be significantly under redline you loose HP. I don't see any choice-do you?

In normal use I am not aware of shifts.
 

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Its necessary. If you were in the max acceleration demand the engine would be forced at running at just under redline for quite a length of time. I don't think engines would hold up in this case. If you decided to be significantly under redline you loose HP. I don't see any choice-do you?

In normal use I am not aware of shifts.
Wouldn't that also be true with no fake gears, though, if you stomped on the pedal and kept it there. I don't see why it can't move smoothly between gear ratios without stepping. That being said, I don't notice it much. During normal driving it seems pretty smooth and I like using the manual mode with the paddles, up in the mountains.
 

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Wouldn't that also be true with no fake gears, though, if you stomped on the pedal and kept it there. I don't see why it can't move smoothly between gear ratios without stepping.
It does go smoothly up to 6K rpm. But then what? It would need to stay at 6000. I doubt the engine would hold up at 6000 rpm for 15 seconds or so.
 

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It does go smoothly up to 6K rpm. But then what? It would need to stay at 6000. I doubt the engine would hold up at 6000 rpm for 15 seconds or so.
We may be talking about different things - Subaru (and other manufacturers) program fake gear positions into their CVTs that more closely emulate a traditional automatic gearbox.
 

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There have been lots of posts about it here and on other car forums. I just found this:


7. Shift Shock Heavy Acceleration
To impart a sportier feel on certain vehicles equipped with a CVT, under heavier acceleration the transmission control module will simulate specific gear ratios and a feeling of shift shock, similar to using the manual shift controls available on a CVT equipped Subaru.
 

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It does go smoothly up to 6K rpm. But then what? It would need to stay at 6000. I doubt the engine would hold up at 6000 rpm for 15 seconds or so.
Higher RPMs cause accelerated wear and tear, but if the engine is designed to operate at that RPM and its up to temperature I don't think it would be an issue.

I think the main reason they don't do it is that humans aren't machines, and its the human that has to FEEL good driving the vehicle.

Holding at 6K rpm steady causes unpleasant NVH and a lack of shift points feels slower than it really is. I noticed this most on a Challenger we were recently thinking of picking up for a family member, and they had a MTX and ATX with the 6.4L. On the drag strip, the ATX is the slightly quicker vehicle, but its amazing how much slower it feels than the MTX for two main reasons IMO:

1) Your brain is only counting from the time you stomp to the time you reach your desired speed with an ATX, whereas with the MTX you're internally counting 1 seconds WHAM NEXT GEAR -> lurch -> 1.5 seconds WHAM NEXT GEAR -> lurch -> 2 seconds -> shift... so much more is happening mentally for you over such short counting durations that it feels faster.

2) Engine braking! With the ATX if you step on gas and release, step on gas and release, you get a reasonably smooth WOOSH and then a soft coasting smooth WOOSH and then a soft coasting. With the MTX you feel directly connected to the engine (well because you are LOL) and the lurchiness of having your head whipped both backward abruptly and forward from engine braking with that same maneuver feels twice as fast.

Its the same reason manufacturers are pumping sound into vehicles through the firewall or even artificially with speakers, as it feels more engaging and powerful, even if its not.

What pushes our buttons may not be logical but if it feels good, just do it! ;)
 

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We may be talking about different things - Subaru (and other manufacturers) program fake gear positions into their CVTs that more closely emulate a traditional automatic gearbox.
Well but maybe, but if you want smooth shifts.....when you stomp it off the line and want the max power it needs to stay in gear 1 until 6K....then what? You can't have your cake and eat it too. I understand where you are coming from though. It just cant shift smoothly up through all the gears or you wont gt max acceleration. If you want the seamless shifting under max power then you have to let stay at 6K rpm (no shifts) till you let up. Right?

The shifting at 6 K and dropping down to like 4.9 K is a loss of acceleration but obviously subaru knows it can't stay at 6K. So not arguing but do you see my point? I see yours.
 

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Well but maybe, but if you want smooth shifts.....when you stomp it off the line and want the max power it needs to stay in gear 1 until 6K....then what? You can't have your cake and eat it too. I understand where you are coming from though. It just cant shift smoothly up through all the gears or you wont gt max acceleration. If you want the seamless shifting under max power then you have to let stay at 6K rpm (no shifts) till you let up. Right?

The shifting at 6 K and dropping down to like 4.9 K is a loss of acceleration but obviously subaru knows it can't stay at 6K. So not arguing but do you see my point? I see yours.
Yep, I get where you were going with that now... 馃樃
 

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Higher RPMs cause accelerated wear and tear, but if the engine is designed to operate at that RPM and its up to temperature I don't think it would be an issue.
I think its not designed to run for 15 seconds at that rpm. Strictly an opinion. But I wouldn't do it. But I have no problem letting it shift a few times at redline. I do it all the time. Much more fun though with my XT
 
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