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Discussion Starter #61
Bummer. If you had a regular wall outlet nearby, that's all you need. If not, still a bummer. I had a road trip the other day for work (~130 miles). Used part of the EV battery in both routes and got 40 MPG to and 45 MPG home. Pretty impressive for the longer trips.
No plugs double bummer!
 

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Discussion Starter #62
I had leased a 2017 Impreza Limited with the 2.0 engine three years ago and in Sept when the lease ended got the 2.5 Crosstrek Limited. Yes, if I floor it for fun the 2.5 is faster, but it's still no speed demon. And in daily driving, I can't think of a time I've noticed or could tell the difference. Mind you, I Iive at sea level and with Covid, haven't been off road yet and have been using it the way I mostly used my Impreza: just to get around town and city. We've had only one snow so far and I was frankly impressed with the way it got me out of the driveway and over the mound the snow plough left in front of my driveway, but that was because of the extra clearance and x-mode which which comes with both engines. Day to day I don't think about or need the extra power of the 2.5.

I do think though the comment above that the 2.5 will be more in demand if you want to sell in a few years, may be a valid consideration. And we all think we want more power if we can afford it. So one other thought: by forgoing the moonroof which I hardly ever used and the HK stereo, the 2.5 Crosstrek Limited monthly cost came out actually cheaper than my '17 Impreza. So if you really want the 2.5, consider forgoing some other option you could possibly do without in order to afford it.
Yes I think I am pretty much setup on getting the 2.5L on a base Limited with no options no sunroof.
 

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A number of newly built condos in my area have EV charging spots in their parking garages, so they're making some progress. I have a friend that lives in one and they placed 2 spots on every other level of the garage and there are 2 spots on the bottom level where guests can park. At first, all kinds of people were parking there (non-EVs), but at least now they're starting to ticket people so I can go over there and use it if I want. Problem is it's run through a separate company so you have to pay for it (I think it's $2 for me to get a full charge). Comes to around $0.11 per mile so not the cheapest option.

I've definitely enjoyed this car having owned it for just over 18 months. Drove almost 3400 miles last year and only spent $104 on gas. Can't complain about that!
Ok,you only paid $104 on gas.How much did you spend on electricity?At $0.11 a mile,3400 miles would be $374.Add on that $104 for gas and that makes $478 total to go that 3400 miles.My '16 2.0 with CVT ranges between 25 and 30 MPG over the course of a year due to the change in seasons.I'll count it as 25 so that's 136 gallons to go 3400 miles.At $2.50 a gallon that is $340 to go that 3400 miles.And that's the absolute worse case scenario.You could subtract 20% if it was all in ideal conditions which would make it $275.So $340,or less,for my ICE powered car vs $478 for your hybrid.I would be complaining about that if I were you.

Now if gas prices are high enough then the numbers will balance out and you may come out ahead.At my optimum of $275,your gas prices would have to break into the $4 a gallon range to equal out the cost to operate and begin to eat away at the initial cost of the vehicle.That's as long as the cost of electricity doesn't go up.They are already planning on banning the sale of fossil fueled vehicles.When that happens,the demand for electricity will skyrocket and with it the price.As Yarameme said "you pay for it one way or another".With a plug in hybrid,you pay for it both ways.With my ICE powered car,it's cheaper to only pay it one way.With an increasing number of EV's replacing gas powered cars,the demand for gas will go down and with it,just like when COVID made everyone stay home,the price will go down too.I can't complain about that.
 

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Ok,you only paid $104 on gas.How much did you spend on electricity?At $0.11 a mile,3400 miles would be $374.Add on that $104 for gas and that makes $478 total to go that 3400 miles.My '16 2.0 with CVT ranges between 25 and 30 MPG over the course of a year due to the change in seasons.I'll count it as 25 so that's 136 gallons to go 3400 miles.At $2.50 a gallon that is $340 to go that 3400 miles.And that's the absolute worse case scenario.You could subtract 20% if it was all in ideal conditions which would make it $275.So $340,or less,for my ICE powered car vs $478 for your hybrid.I would be complaining about that if I were you.

Now if gas prices are high enough then the numbers will balance out and you may come out ahead.At my optimum of $275,your gas prices would have to break into the $4 a gallon range to equal out the cost to operate and begin to eat away at the initial cost of the vehicle.That's as long as the cost of electricity doesn't go up.They are already planning on banning the sale of fossil fueled vehicles.When that happens,the demand for electricity will skyrocket and with it the price.As Yarameme said "you pay for it one way or another".With a plug in hybrid,you pay for it both ways.With my ICE powered car,it's cheaper to only pay it one way.With an increasing number of EV's replacing gas powered cars,the demand for gas will go down and with it,just like when COVID made everyone stay home,the price will go down too.I can't complain about that.
Wow, there's a lot of stuff in your message. A space or 2 would help.

I spent $86 in 2020 for gas. I said $104, but I bought that last tank on 12/28 and drove home so I barely used any of the fuel. Let's go with the $104 for shits and giggles because your math is wrong on too many levels.

I spent $73 to charge my car in 2020. I charged the car 94 times.

Overall, I spent $177 to drive 3,400 miles ($0.052/mi). No where near $0.11/mi that you came up with. I averaged 89 MPG in 2020.

In the end, check your math. I spent $177 for 3,400mi, you're about $200 more for ICE.

I'm at $32,600 purchase after taking into account the Federal Tax Credit (this price includes tax, tags, accessories [dealer and aftermarket]). You're looking at $29,674 for a base Limited w/6% sales tax minus tags, accessories, etc.

The hybrid is not that much higher than the Limited and take into account I have about $1300 loaded into the car for 10 years of remote start and the other starlink products Subaru dropped in. I also don't have the moonroof package, so it's the bottom tier hybrid. Difference is now $1,626 (not including the accessories, etc.). After tags, accessories, etc. the gap is more like $530. You exceed my costs in 2 years with a Limited with no moonroof.

I'm making out better even with $2.35 gas. It just gets even better when gas prices go up :)
 

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It's also worth mentioning that city driving is where the hybrids really shine. Then they can use regenerative braking to avoid "wasting" all that power on deceleration/braking. On a long enough highway drive, they expend their battery power and use their ICE, which gives them MPGs similar to any other ICE , but with a big heavy battery.
At highway speeds, most of your energy is expended pushing air out of the way, and the energy required increases exponentially to your speed, so the single best thigh you can do for highway MPGs is drop your speed.
 

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Hello there, I am interested in the new Crosstrek as my main car. I have a short daily commute and drive mostly on urban roads and some weekends road trip. I test drove the two 2021 engines options and did not feel much difference between the 2.0L and 2.5L. But it was a short test drive and it's hard to get a sense of it . After reading reviews, it seems that some people are finding the 2.0 completely sufficient while others feel it's underpowered. So I am trying to decide between the two and would like to hear from real world drivers. Thank you.
I live on hillside here in Anchorage, AK and use my 2015 Crosstrek for general errands and commuting (12 miles and 1000 vertical feet) when I work at the office. It's also nice to pack up for a multi-day trip to the cabin. The 2.0 seems to work just fine on the highway, on the hills, and in the snow. I didn't buy it for a "driving experience", I bought it to get me where I need to go with some economy. If I want to go "off-road", meaning places where I might get mired in, I'll take my J60 Land Cruiser.
 

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I’ve driven both and it was the CVT that needed the bigger engine. The manual is more easily able to deliver the torque while I felt the CVT was delayed thinking about what you were trying to do.
 

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Hello there, I am interested in the new Crosstrek as my main car. I have a short daily commute and drive mostly on urban roads and some weekends road trip. I test drove the two 2021 engines options and did not feel much difference between the 2.0L and 2.5L. But it was a short test drive and it's hard to get a sense of it . After reading reviews, it seems that some people are finding the 2.0 completely sufficient while others feel it's underpowered. So I am trying to decide between the two and would like to hear from real world drivers. Thank you.
Hello there. So, my wife and I have owned the 2.0 crosstrek since 2018 October (2019 model). A year later I personally got a 2.5 Forester (same engine in the 2021 Trek 2.5. We swapped cars a few months ago and I miss the 2.5 engine the Forester offers. I definitely recommend the 2.5. I almost traded the 2.0 for a 2.5 but ultimately didn’t because i now work from home due to COVID. Hardly drive it.
 

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I had a 2017 Crosstrek with the 2.0 and just bought a 2021 Crosstrek Sport...the difference is noticeable. It gets up on the freeway much, much faster. That 30 hp is noticeable for sure.
Also, the CVT and differentials are those from the Forester. Fyi.
 

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Hello there, I am interested in the new Crosstrek as my main car. I have a short daily commute and drive mostly on urban roads and some weekends road trip. I test drove the two 2021 engines options and did not feel much difference between the 2.0L and 2.5L. But it was a short test drive and it's hard to get a sense of it . After reading reviews, it seems that some people are finding the 2.0 completely sufficient while others feel it's underpowered. So I am trying to decide between the two and would like to hear from real world drivers. Thank you.
Ive owned an 2017 Impreza Hatchback with the 2.0 in it. It’s basically a very similar car, lower of course, but same motor/tranny etc. I traded it in for a 2021 limited XTreck wth the 2.5. I was able to do extensive test driving of both the 2.0 and 2.5 ( over 25 miles on each drive)... and the 2.5 has it hands down over the 2.0. While the 2.0 is “sufficient”, the 2.5 never makes me feel like I’m in trouble when passing etc. And, the gas mileage is about the same (I’m averaging about 27 after 1500 miles. Price difference isn’t huge, a couple of hundred over the 2.0, but there’s a big difference in price between trim levels. My 2021 limited with all of the other stuff I added, was well over $33,000. all of that aside, if you can afford it, get the 2.5.
 

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I had a 2017 limited 2.0 CVT, and traded a week ago for a loaded ‘21 limited with CVT. The 2.5 is a much bigger upgrade than the raw numbers suggest. I live at around 2000ft ASL, but frequently travel to 6000ft ASL for work and play. The 2.5 doesn’t have to work near as hard, and I’m getting almost the same fuel economy and it’s nowhere near broken in yet. I loved my old one, but man I’m totally smitten with this one!
 

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Wow, there's a lot of stuff in your message. A space or 2 would help.

I spent $86 in 2020 for gas. I said $104, but I bought that last tank on 12/28 and drove home so I barely used any of the fuel. Let's go with the $104 for shits and giggles because your math is wrong on too many levels.
My math is wrong?That $0.11 a mile isn't what I came up with.It's what you said it costs you.3400 miles at $0.11 a mile is $374.I'm sure you used some gas during that period,which would raise the cost.But that doesn't matter because the cost of recharging alone is already more than the $275 to $340 max that it costs me to go the same distance.Look at these numbers again and tell me where the math is wrong.
 

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"There is no replacement for displacement".
I've never heard anybody moaning because they had too much power for pulling, climbing, hauling.
I HAVE however, heard hours of moaning about underpowered cars that get crappy mileage because they're constantly being used at wide open throttle. Also moaning about premature vehicle failures for the same reason.
Like said above- Pony up.

cheers
 

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Bought a 2020 with 2.0 in June after driving a 6cyl Toyota 4Runner SR5 for years.
While this little car isn’t super gutsy, it’s quite adequate. When placed in ‘sport’ mode it changes gearing, and has much speedier pick up. I like it, and wouldn’t spend the extra 3k$ on the bigger motor if I were purchasing 2021 now.
 

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My daily rig for the last 20 years was a 4 Liter straight six Jeep Cherokee rated at 190hp. Loved that car but at 225000mile a cracked head ended our relationship. The Jeep was actually smaller than my 21 Limited 2.5L. The CT has only 6 less rated HP bit more than half the displacement and gets about twice the mileage around town. What's not to like?
 

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Hello there, I am interested in the new Crosstrek as my main car. I have a short daily commute and drive mostly on urban roads and some weekends road trip. I test drove the two 2021 engines options and did not feel much difference between the 2.0L and 2.5L. But it was a short test drive and it's hard to get a sense of it . After reading reviews, it seems that some people are finding the 2.0 completely sufficient while others feel it's underpowered. So I am trying to decide between the two and would like to hear from real world drivers. Thank you.

I have an 18 Limited. If you live where there are mountains, I don't recommend the 2.0 because driving 10 minutes to work over a mountain kills the gas mileage. I see 18 in the winter. My old Acura 3.2 TL did 19 all year round on same trip. In the summer I get 25 with the Subaru. I would only buy the Limited because of the LED headlights. Drive a lot at night, and halogens are not good, LED or HID but HID's are dying out, everything is going LED except for most models of the Crosstrek! As much as I like the Crosstrek, it's missing a few things I used in the past like automatically locking doors when you put it in drive or reach a certain mph, and also memory seats. Paid $30,600 in 2017 for the 18 model year, and it should have those two features. I don't want a 21 because of the start / stop technology. Good luck in your choice, but if I had to do it again it would be a 2.5 liter in Limited trim.
 

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My math is wrong?That $0.11 a mile isn't what I came up with.It's what you said it costs you.3400 miles at $0.11 a mile is $374.I'm sure you used some gas during that period,which would raise the cost.But that doesn't matter because the cost of recharging alone is already more than the $275 to $340 max that it costs me to go the same distance.Look at these numbers again and tell me where the math is wrong.
That's the price you would pay to charge at a third-party charging station! It was a statement for people who live in a condo and that can't just plug into a standard outlet.

I plug in at my house and it costs $0.78 per charge for what the EPA says is 17 miles of EV driving (I sometimes get 20-25mi on a charge). That's $0.045 per mile (for 17 miles). That's $156 for 3400 miles if it was all electric, not $374. You're right that it doesn't make sense if you're using third-party charging stations full-time due to the fees, but you're totally missing the point for those that plug into an outlet at home on their own electric bill.

Here's what I spent last year that falls under the mileage driven:
Gas - $86.14
Electric - $73.74
$159.88 ($0.047/mi)
 

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It's also worth mentioning that city driving is where the hybrids really shine. Then they can use regenerative braking to avoid "wasting" all that power on deceleration/braking. On a long enough highway drive, they expend their battery power and use their ICE, which gives them MPGs similar to any other ICE , but with a big heavy battery.
At highway speeds, most of your energy is expended pushing air out of the way, and the energy required increases exponentially to your speed, so the single best thigh you can do for highway MPGs is drop your speed.
Agreed. If you use the system right, you can really game the system and improve your mileage. Coasting and braking are great and if you anticipate signals and don't hit the brakes too hard, you can increase the regenerative power before the mechanical brake pads kick in.

For example, I drove to Allentown, PA and the start of my drive is 55mph, so I used SAVE mode. There's a stretch of 40mph before I get to the highway, so I drop into EV mode there, then the highway is a combination of 55mph and 70mph. Once I got off the highway, it was a combination of 35-45mph so I went back into EV mode. For this 62mi trip (each way), my battery went from 17mi to 10mi and averaged almost 41 MPG according to the car's computer. Going home was the same route, so I did the same thing and got 45 MPG. Trip out was more uphill, so going home was downhill and so the MPG makes sense.

I follow Engineering Explained on YouTube and it's interesting to note that if you had smaller wheels, the force on the car at speed is less. This is mainly due to lower weight. Tire circumference stays the same. I ran the calcs on my 18" wheels and 17" wheels (data is available through the EPA and manufacturers have to provide the variables to them).

18" wheels (60mph) - 26.7lbf 17" wheels (60mph) - 17.5lbf

9.2lbf savings by simply dropping to 17" wheels so there's a savings there for additional range, but I'm still trying to figure out how to calculate the range vs speed graph. I'm really curious to see if I gain maybe 2 miles or is it more. Doubt it would be worth buying wheels, but pretty neat regardless.
 
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