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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

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Finally released...
I thought they had already been released. :rolleyes: Guess I wasn't paying attention. It will be interesting to see how many they sell.
 

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I don't get it. The hybrid is certainly more expensive than the ICE Xtrek. Towing capacity is reduced by a third - 500lbs, weight is increased and carrying capacity is reduced by the 500lb battery pack, interior space is reduced by the increase in interior rear deck height - battery underneath, mpg is increased by only 1 and the electrics will drive the vehicle all of 17 miles. What's the attraction. I don't see any. Look-at-me, look-at-me...I'm green!
 

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I don't get it. The hybrid is certainly more expensive than the ICE Xtrek. Towing capacity is reduced by a third - 500lbs, weight is increased and carrying capacity is reduced by the 500lb battery pack, interior space is reduced by the increase in interior rear deck height - battery underneath, mpg is increased by only 1 and the electrics will drive the vehicle all of 17 miles. What's the attraction. I don't see any. Look-at-me, look-at-me...I'm green!
Just wait till you have to pay out $13K for a new battery pack in a few years! And that doesn't even include the labor. I'm sure they made it more difficult to replace than flashlight batteries.

Part Number: 82009FL501
 

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2019 Crosstrek Plug-in Hybrid
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I've owned my 2019 hybrid for almost 18 months as of Jan 1, 2021. I've got just over 7600 miles on the odometer and I've filled the car a whopping 9 times. Pre-pandemic, I was at 6 fill-ups and about 6000 miles and had bought 52 gallons of fuel. I don't trust the efficiency numbers as stated by Subaru or the EPA because with that simple calc of 6000 miles and 52 gallons, I'm over 115 MPG. Sure, if I drove further distances and ran the engine more, that number would go down, but if you drove your ICE Crosstrek the same distances I have with the hybrid, the efficiency wouldn't come close to what I've achieved. I made a few long-haul trips (200+ mi in a day) and I was getting 39MPG reading from the car, so that's still not too shabby. It does what I need and I'll hold onto it for probably 7 years before trading in (maybe less depending on the finances for a trade) and pay cash for a new BEV or something.
 

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2019 Crosstrek Plug-in Hybrid
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Similarly equipped, the hybrid is around $5000 more expensive than the Crosstrek Limited (after a 6% sales tax and no trade-in). By similarly equipped, I took into account the Starlink program that you get for 10-yrs at no cost in the Hybrid. That appears to be the only additional equipment features you can buy for the Limited that is included in the price of the Hybrid. Had you paid for the Starlink safety and security packages for the same time frame (even after the free period), Starlink runs $1263.

The reason the hybrid really makes sense is the Federal Tax Credit. When you take the Federal Tax Credit, the cost difference is now $830 more expensive to own the hybrid vs the Limited. This is for either car without the moonroof packages.

The battery pack has a 10-yr, 150,000mi warranty. I probably won't keep the car for 10-yr, but I have that security.
 

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2019 Crosstrek PHEV Lagoon Blue Pearl
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I don't get it. The hybrid is certainly more expensive than the ICE Xtrek. Towing capacity is reduced by a third - 500lbs, weight is increased and carrying capacity is reduced by the 500lb battery pack, interior space is reduced by the increase in interior rear deck height - battery underneath, mpg is increased by only 1 and the electrics will drive the vehicle all of 17 miles. What's the attraction. I don't see any. Look-at-me, look-at-me...I'm green!
I don't expect to change anyone's mind, but here is my reasoning. As a note, I have owned 4 WRX/STI and 2 Teslas, I am not a tree-hugger, but I appreciate the benefits of EVs.

You are correct, the towing is less (I don't tow), the trunk cargo is smaller (not a big deal for regular shopping or if you can lay flat w/ seats lowered). However, the range and MPG is actually impressive when you consider the tank is smaller and the competition (PHEV/Hybrid) do not have true full-time AWD, and instead use a part-time rear axel that is ONLY propelled by the battery (which runs out quick and has less torque), up to a speed of 40 mph or so (Rav4 Prime, etc).

1. My purchase helps, in a small way, to encourage Subaru to invest in EVs.
2. The 17 miles of EV-only propulsion are more enjoyable than the 480 miles of gas driving. The gas engine is rough, slow and frankly, sad.
3. I used to drive 80 miles per day for work, 17 miles of EV and the rest on hybrid at 35 MPG+ were helpful in reducing my need to refuel as often. Now, with WFH, I haven't needed to get gas in a long time (to the point where I will force the engine on to prevent the gasoline and oil from getting stale).
 

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2019 Crosstrek Plug-in Hybrid
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@Snow Drift I agree that we're not trying to change anyone's minds about the car because it really all comes down to what you need the vehicle to do for you.

For me at the time, my daily commute was 17mi round trip and I could do it in all EV without using the engine. It certainly met my needs and I didn't need the car for cargo capacity or towing capability (we have another car for that purpose). I didn't need a big car when 95% of my driving is alone and my legacy was great on the highway, but bad with my normal commute so I went from 25MPG to 100+ MPG. It was the only car to offer full-time mechanical AWD with a PHEV and I really didn't care for a Mitsubishi or have the need to pay all that money for a Tesla (let alone not getting a full Federal Tax Credit).

Was it worth the money, you bet. I was likely going to get a Crosstrek regardless and it would have been the Limited trim. So for the extra $830 after accounting for everything, that was a no brainer to me for what I gained and saving time by skipping the gas station twice a month for once every 2-3 months!

It all boils down to what's your purpose with the car. For me, it's pretty much a commuter car (not so much now that we're all practically WFH full-time), but everything I need is close to me so barely use gas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I wonder what the resale value of a Crosstrek Hybrid will be compared to a straight ICE one of the same year.
 

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2021 Crosstrek Limited, Pure Red
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Yeah, if I were going to buy one of those I'd plan on getting rid of it relatively early, while the trade-in value is still there. As soon as the battery starts to fade the trade-in value will plummet.

I've actually seen reports that the owners of early-model Nissan Leafs can't even find replacement batteries for their cars, making the cars essentially useless ...
 

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2019 Crosstrek Plug-in Hybrid
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Update I was off on the hybrid MSRP by $1,000. It was almost $36,000 MSRP in 2019

Did a quick run on kbb.com for my area of Pennsylvania at the current mileage of my car. The numbers below are the middle of the trade-in range for comparison.

Hybrid no moonroof: $28,611
Limited no moonroof: $25,280

So about $3,400 difference between the two cars. The Hybrid MSRP for that year was just shy of $36,000, so if you remove the Federal Tax Credit from the MSRP, you're looking at $31,498. The Limited was $27,195. The difference $4,300 roughly.

I guess you can assume the two trim levels might hold that same gap over time. Based on a quick rough calculation from what I paid for my Hybrid (and after the Federal Tax Credit of $4502), my car has depreciated about $2,300 in 18 months. I took the sale price of the car and had to subtract sales tax based on the difference between the car and my trade-in, then subtracted the tax credit. I ignored minor things like doc fee and the other small dealer things (accessories are null assuming the cars are equally equipped).
 

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2019 Crosstrek Plug-in Hybrid
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Yeah, if I were going to buy one of those I'd plan on getting rid of it relatively early, while the trade-in value is still there. As soon as the battery starts to fade the trade-in value will plummet.

I've actually seen reports that the owners of early-model Nissan Leafs can't even find replacement batteries for their cars, making the cars essentially useless ...
You need to take that all with a grain of salt. Early Nissan Leaf is brand new technology. This car has Toyota technology that's been around for a number of years already and this is the same battery tech as the Prius Prime so the point could be moot. Packaging may be different, but it's the same parts (it might actually be the same packaging to help reduce Subaru's R&D efforts). You also assume a pretty drastic degradation of the battery that may or may not be true. We'll see what the value is like in 2024 when I start researching what's out there at that time.
 

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'18 and '19 Crosstrek Limiteds
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my car has depreciated about $2,300 in 18 months.
I doubt that if you tried to sell or trade it in today, you'd only be $2,300 out of pocket after 18 months...

When the PHEV was available they had one at our dealership. I couldn't get the math to work. Some folks paid a premium to be able to drive in HOV lanes without any passengers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yeah, if I were going to buy one of those I'd plan on getting rid of it relatively early, while the trade-in value is still there. As soon as the battery starts to fade the trade-in value will plummet.

I've actually seen reports that the owners of early-model Nissan Leafs can't even find replacement batteries for their cars, making the cars essentially useless ...
It sure depends on your perspective and beliefs. I am also on an EV forum since I drive an EV. And those guys sure think differently!! They believe pure ICE cars will be near worthless in 5 years.

As for the old Leafs, they are a bit of an anomaly. They were early adopters, and didn't have the best battery technology, esp the BMS. They only had passive cooling, and the batteries did not do well in hot climates. Having said that, if you can find an old Leaf with the battery still good, they are a great deal.

The technology has really advanced since then, and most now have coolant systems to control battery temp. Many are warrantied for 8 or 10 years, and good reports so far from high mileage users. Many predict the new batteries will last a million miles, long after the rest of the car fails.
 

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Following updates to the gasoline version, the 2021 Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid is scheduled to arrive at dealerships this winter with minor changes. Pricing starts at $36,395—a $200 increase over the 2020 model, according to Subaru.

 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Being the OP of this thread, I forgot to insert the word Hybrid in my title.
 

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I doubt that if you tried to sell or trade it in today, you'd only be $2,300 out of pocket after 18 months...

When the PHEV was available they had one at our dealership. I couldn't get the math to work. Some folks paid a premium to be able to drive in HOV lanes without any passengers.
Perhaps, but remember it's all about the region in which you sell. There are a bunch on lots across NJ (where I bought mine). They were a bit few and far between in the beginning because they were only producing 200-400 per month for distribution and they won't have more 3-4 on a lot at one time because people still want the standard ICE Trek.

Thankfully in my area they weren't paying a premium for the car and I got the car for $2000 under MSRP. I got the car for $23,200 after including everything minus Fed Tax Credit (my trade was $13,500). Limited could've been around $26,000.
 

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2021 Crosstrek Limited, Pure Red
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Oh, I'm definitely not saying that buyers of Crosstrek hybrids are going to end up owning $35,000 Subaru paperweights in a few years ... but I do think that long-term battery life should be one of the things factored into someone's decision-making process. And we really won't be sure how all that is going to sort out until it starts happening in a few more years.

Though in a lot of ways they're still a work in progress, I think the current hybrids are worth considering for someone who's looking for purely an urban commuter vehicle. They don't make sense for someone like me who puts on a lot of rural highway miles.

We really need a generational leap in battery technology for plug-in cars to be able to completely succeed ICE vehicles ...

Being the OP of this thread, I forgot to insert the word Hybrid in my title.
Fixed.
 

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@Montanan I agree with you. There are definitely quirks with the systems that will be improved over time. Nothing will ever be perfect, just like how ICE lose efficiency at combustion due to losses from heat and that's never been solved.

It will certainly be interesting to see how my battery capacity changes (or doesn't) over the next 5 years of ownership.
 
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