Model Year 2018 and Newer USB Music: Existing ID3 Tags Discrepancy? - Page 2

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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwasifar View Post
    I am rather surprised that it would do that. I wonder how the Gracenote database is kept updated? What trim line do you have, and what Starlink services are enabled, if any?

    I wrote a Linux shell script that will write files to a USB drive such that they play in the expected order, sort of like what foldersort.exe does. It may work on your Mac with small alterations. If you're interested, PM me and I'll send it along. Basically what it does is first create the folder structure; sync the write; then write each file sequentially as the folder structure would require, syncing the write after each file.

    Pheral: The reason this is necessary is that modern OSes don't necessarily copy the files in the order you see them listed. USB drives order natively by the datetimestamp the file write was closed. To get them to behave properly, you have to write the files in the desired order, and sync each write to close the file before proceeding to the next one.
    So does this mean that, theoretically, I could copy the files from, say, Abbey Road, each one at a time before moving on to the next, and that they should then play in the correct order?

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pheral View Post
    So does this mean that, theoretically, I could copy the files from, say, Abbey Road, each one at a time before moving on to the next, and that they should then play in the correct order?
    Ha, Abbey Road is always my test case for track order and gapless playback.

    Yes, that would work, if you are sure each write has completed before starting the next one. I haven't tried that technique on a Windows machine, but I would think that once the flash drive's LED stops flashing, the write is completed and you can start the next one. Or, to be sure, you could eject and remount the drive after each track; I know that would force the write to finish. But it would be super tedious.

  4. #13
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    I don't doubt what you're saying and get your train of thought (I"m fairly tech-savvy), but I"m going to bet that when I try this, it will still want to play Abbey Road in alphabetical order. I'll report back.

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  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pheral View Post
    So does this mean that, theoretically, I could copy the files from, say, Abbey Road, each one at a time before moving on to the next, and that they should then play in the correct order?
    I made a copy of the original, CD, Abbey Road. If you have a CD player it's good.
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  7. #15
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    Alphabetical order by filename? Or by metadata?

    If it's filename, just start the filename with the track number:

    Screenshot from 2019-04-15 14-39-26.jpg

  8. #16
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    I've tried that (as have others) - the HU seems to ignore any numbers at the head of the file name, and actually, the copy of the album that I tried, in addition to having copied the files over in sequence, had track numbers appended to their file name.

  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pheral View Post
    I've tried that (as have others) - the HU seems to ignore any numbers at the head of the file name, and actually, the copy of the album that I tried, in addition to having copied the files over in sequence, had track numbers appended to their file name.
    In that case, either the files are coming off the flash drive in native order, or else the head unit is ordering them by tag. What happens if you remove the tags?

  10. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwasifar View Post
    In that case, either the files are coming off the flash drive in native order, or else the head unit is ordering them by tag. What happens if you remove the tags?
    I'm not convinced that the song order issue is related to the tags, or at least I'm not sure what removing them would get me. The reason?: I made an mp3 CD from a playlist I created in iTunes with about 8 albums. When inserted in the CD player is is read from the Media screen correctly, with album names, artwork, song titles, etc. Except....All the songs in each album are listed in alphabetical order and will only playback in that order, not in the order they are intended to be played. I just don't see why the tags would trigger this behavior. Honestlym it's starting to just feel like sloppy programming.

    While this may seem like a minor issue to some people, especially at a time when people seem to listen to tracks pulled from a vast bucket of various songs, the forced alphabetization of tracks basically negates the intentions of the artists and composers and screws up, in particular, classical recordings where particular playback order is a given.

  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pheral View Post
    I'm not convinced that the song order issue is related to the tags, or at least I'm not sure what removing them would get me. The reason?: I made an mp3 CD from a playlist I created in iTunes with about 8 albums. When inserted in the CD player is is read from the Media screen correctly, with album names, artwork, song titles, etc. Except....All the songs in each album are listed in alphabetical order and will only playback in that order, not in the order they are intended to be played. I just don't see why the tags would trigger this behavior. Honestlym it's starting to just feel like sloppy programming.

    While this may seem like a minor issue to some people, especially at a time when people seem to listen to tracks pulled from a vast bucket of various songs, the forced alphabetization of tracks basically negates the intentions of the artists and composers and screws up, in particular, classical recordings where particular playback order is a given.
    With a little bit of experimentation with title tags and filenames, you should be able to narrow down where it's getting the data it's alphabetizing.

    Consider. If it's alphabetizing songs within a folder by title, then it must be getting the titles from somewhere. The possibilities are ID3v1 tag, ID3v2 tag, or filename. (The more I think about it, the less likely I think it is that the car is using an internal database.)

    If I were you, I'd start by making a CD - manually, not in iTunes - with the tags completely stripped from the files, and the filenames changed to a.mp3, b.mp3, c.mp3, and so on. See if the songs play in the desired order. Then gradually add things back in - proper filenames, tags of different types, etc - making a CD each time, and see which addition causes the sort problem.

    Once you've identified how the sort is occurring, you can alter the sorted data to sort it properly. Let's say for example it turns out to be sorting the ID3v2 tag TIT2 frame (which I think is the most likely candidate). Currently the tracks would have these values for TIT2:

    Come Together
    Something
    Maxwell's Silver Hammer
    Oh! Darling
    Octopus's Garden
    I Want You (She's So Heavy)
    Here Comes The Sun
    Because
    You Never Give Me Your Money
    Sun King
    Mean Mr Mustard
    Polythene Pam
    She Came In Through The Bathroom Window
    Golden Slumbers
    Carry That Weight
    The End
    Her Majesty

    But if it's sorting them alphabetically by TIT2, change that tag to include a track number:

    01 Come Together
    02 Something
    03 Maxwell's Silver Hammer
    04 Oh! Darling
    05 Octopus's Garden
    06 I Want You (She's So Heavy)
    07 Here Comes The Sun
    08 Because
    09 You Never Give Me Your Money
    10 Sun King
    11 Mean Mr Mustard
    12 Polythene Pam
    13 She Came In Through The Bathroom Window
    14 Golden Slumbers
    15 Carry That Weight
    16 The End
    17 Her Majesty

    ...and that should produce the desired playback sort. If not, and it seems to be parsing out the numbers, try it this way:

    A - Come Together
    B - Something
    C - Maxwell's Silver Hammer
    D - Oh! Darling
    and so forth.

    I'm sure that would be kind of tedious to do, but it ought to work, and it could be automated with a script if you can write code.

    Here's something else to think about, which just occurred to me. The TRCK (track number) frame should technically be populated by a single integer, e.g. TRCK for Maxwell's Silver Hammer should be 3. But a lot of CD ripping programs will populate that field with 3/17, indicating track number 3 of 17 total. It's possible the car would actually prefer to sort on track number by default, but can't parse the track numbers in your files, and drops back to alphabetization.

    Do you have a sure way to strip all tags from a file? Don't rely on iTunes. There could be fields and formatting going on under the covers that it's not showing you.

  12. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwasifar View Post
    With a little bit of experimentation with title tags and filenames, you should be able to narrow down where it's getting the data it's alphabetizing.
    Okay, so today I plugged in a flash drive containing 8653 random tracks in a single folder with sequentially ordered numerical filenames: 0001.mp3, 0002.mp3, 0003.mp3, and so on through 8653.mp3. These files all contain only ID3v2 tags (no ID3v1 tags in any file) with the following frames populated:

    TIT2 (Title)
    TPE1 (Artist, actually Lead Performer as far as the frame description puts it)
    TALB (Album)
    TRCK (Track number)
    TCON (Genre)
    TLEN (Length, in samples)
    TYER (Year)

    The result is that the tracks are played alphabetically by title, starting with the 7654th track in the complete alphabetized list. So it apparently will index the entire list, but only wants to play the last 1000 songs.

    I know the car is reading the tags because there's no title information anywhere else in the files or filenames, and because the artists displayed on the screen are formatted Lastname, Firstname as I have them in my tags. (Don't ask, it's a long story.) So I conclude that it's stupidly alphabetizing by the TIT2 frame of the ID3v2 tag.

    I can see a couple of possible workarounds for this.

    One possibility is to prepend sequential alpha characters or numeric characters to the TIT2 tag frame contents, as I mentioned before. The drawback is that the prepended characters would appear in the display.

    Another possibility might be to put each file in a separate numbered subfolder. So instead of this:

    Screenshot at 2019-04-20 22-26-10.jpg

    Do this:

    Screenshot at 2019-04-20 22-27-19.jpg

    This would be a colossal pain in the ass to do manually, but easy to script. The drawback is I don't know how many subfolders the car can cope with. It clearly gets confused with more than 1000 tracks to deal with.

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